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The Chaos (1922)

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21–30 of 34 posts

Re: The Chaos (1922)

#21
post #2

A well deserved slap in the face of the English language, delivered with splendor.

Isn’t wild that if you said that sentence about why other language, particular, a non-Western one, this would be considered hate speech? It’s interesting how language works.

People are generally given a free pass to criticise their own in-group.

There's a famous Chinese poem demonstrating an issue in the Chinese language, IIRC spelling reform; but were I to speak it (I can't*) I suspect anyone who couldn't speak Chinese would think I was mocking the language despite the original being from a native speaker:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion-Eating_Poet_in_the_Stone_...

* I lack the skill to tell if this is correct pronunciation: https://youtu.be/vExjnn_3ep4?si=hbg3b3niapF6X4TH

Re: The Chaos (1922)

#22
post #18

Looking at extreme examples of historical spelling (e.g. Tibetan) English isn't particularly bad, even in the context of Great Britain, e.g Manx [0] is way more off. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manx_language#Spelling_to_so...

English is itself an extreme example of historical spelling. Tibetan, Mongolian and French are bad, but English is just as bad if not worse.

(Manx is terrible, but for different reasons: its orthography was designed by English-speakers!)

Re: The Chaos (1922)

#24
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t wild that if you said that sentence about why other language, particular, a non-Western one, this would be considered hate speech? It’s interesting how language works.

People are generally given a free pass to criticise their own in-group. There's a famous Chinese poem demonstrating an issue in the Chinese language, IIRC spelling reform; but were I to speak it (I can't*) I suspect anyone who couldn't speak Chinese would think I was mocking the language despite the original being from a native speaker: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion-Eating_Poet_in_the_Stone_... * I lack the skil…

Well, my point is more that you can specifically criticize Western culture even in degrading terms from any group, and it is fine.

Re: The Chaos (1922)

#25
post #15

English spelling could be significantly improved by adding a few optional accents. They could be purely additive: the ASCII spellings would remain valid for those who prefer to use them. Native English speakers don’t seem to quite grasp how difficult the spelling is. I’ve been using this language for thirty years and I sometimes forget how some basic words are pronounced because I mostly write it. There’s no need to…

You have joined a time honored tradition of attempting to fix English spelling https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/English-language_spelling_re...

Re: The Chaos (1922)

#26
post #15

English spelling could be significantly improved by adding a few optional accents. They could be purely additive: the ASCII spellings would remain valid for those who prefer to use them. Native English speakers don’t seem to quite grasp how difficult the spelling is. I’ve been using this language for thirty years and I sometimes forget how some basic words are pronounced because I mostly write it. There’s no need to…

> Native English speakers don’t seem to quite grasp how difficult the spelling is.

We're well aware. This is why we have spelling competitions and why spellcheck is included everywhere. Native English speakers regularly use spellcheck. Some people even forego standard English spelling and just spell stuff as they want.

There are many things I could say about optionally adding accents to clarify some vowel pronunciations, but the worst case scenario would probably be if it actually gained traction. https://xkcd.com/927/

Re: The Chaos (1922)

#27
Reminds me of this:

ODE TO A SPELL CHECKER

by Jerrold H Zar

Eye halve a spelling check her,

It came with my pea sea.

It plane lee marks four my revue

Miss steaks aye kin knot sea.

Eye ran this poem threw it,

Your sure reel glad two no.

Its vary polished in it’s weigh,

My checker tolled me sew.

A check her is a bless sing;

It freeze yew lodes of thyme.

It helps me right awl stiles two reed,

And aides me when aye rime.

Each frays come posed up on my screen,

Eye trussed too bee a joule;

The checker pours o’er every word

To cheque sum spelling rule.

Bee fore wee rote with checkers

Hour spelling was inn deck line,

Butt now when wee dew have a laps,

Wee are knot maid too wine.

Butt now bee cause my spelling

Is checked with such grate flare,

There are know faults with in my cite,

Of nun eye am a wear.

Now spelling does knot phase me,

It does knot bring a tier;

My pay purrs awl due glad den

With wrapped words fare as hear.

To rite with care is quite a feet

Of witch won should be proud;

And we mussed dew the best wee can

Sew flaws are knot aloud.

That’s why eye brake in two averse

Cuz eye dew want too please.

Sow glad eye yam that aye did bye

This soft wear four pea seas.

Re: The Chaos (1922)

#29
Really, English is sort of a patchwork quilt. English spelling starts making sense if you also know the spelling of several of the source languages it borrowed from. French especially important; Latin and Greek via french IIRC; and maybe German and Dutch or so for the Saxon side of things.

The confusion happens when (Anglo)-Saxon, French, and Greek words all happen to collide.

Or I would say that, but then I looked at one of the first given examples: Corpse and Corps, not actually from two different languages. Actually borrowed from Latin "corpus" (body) via french twice . [1]

You still get quite a bit of traction if you know those other languages, but ... that one is particularly bad!

See also: Ghoti (Supposedly can validly be pronounced "Fish")

* "Gh" = /f/ (laugh) : A sound that doesn't exist in english anymore, but does in german" "Lach", which is pronounced roughly the same as in old english). Or, if you want a word you might recognize: "Loch", which is the Scottish Gaelic word for Lake.

* "O" = /ɪ/ (women) : Actually english, from the great vowel shift I think?

* "Ti" = /ʃ/ (nation) : Nation is actually a french word, borrowed wholesale including the original spelling. [2]

[1] https://www.etymonline.com/word/corpse

[2] The story might be more involved, but this post is getting long.

Re: The Chaos (1922)

#30
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are generally given a free pass to criticise their own in-group. There's a famous Chinese poem demonstrating an issue in the Chinese language, IIRC spelling reform; but were I to speak it (I can't*) I suspect anyone who couldn't speak Chinese would think I was mocking the language despite the original being from a native speaker: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion-Eating_Poet_in_the_Stone_... * I lack the skil…

Well, my point is more that you can specifically criticize Western culture even in degrading terms from any group, and it is fine.

Who, of those here critiquing the English language, isn't part of Western culture? Or of the other possible category of "anglosphere"?
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