BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program • Hacker News Board

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#21

Post by mibbitier » Wed, Jul 18, 2012, 6:43 PM UTC

_pius wrote: post #14

JPKab wrote: post #13

I realize that the realities of the limited resources available for charities and non-profits is what leads to the ethnic and gender based targeting, but this just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Is it a good cause? Yes. Teaching any disadvantaged group a useful skill is a great thing, but solving a problem of exclusion with further exclusion is, in principal, bad. I grew up in a poor, mostly black, rural county in V…

I read your rant a few times and I've yet to see your point. Charities should be based on need and helping the greater good, not on playing favorites. This isn't a charity. A black woman started this program to address a legitimate need that she saw. Others who agreed with her gave her money to do it. Where is the bad in this? How is this anything but a net positive for the world?

I'd guess the bad bit is the sexism and racism.

Would you be so positive if it was some program that excluded any applicant that wasn't a white male?

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#22

Post by JPKab » Wed, Jul 18, 2012, 6:43 PM UTC

peterwwillis wrote: post #15

JPKab wrote: post #13

I realize that the realities of the limited resources available for charities and non-profits is what leads to the ethnic and gender based targeting, but this just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Is it a good cause? Yes. Teaching any disadvantaged group a useful skill is a great thing, but solving a problem of exclusion with further exclusion is, in principal, bad. I grew up in a poor, mostly black, rural county in V…

So you're saying that charities should do a breakdown of all the demographics in a given area, and spend exactly the same resources on getting them all help? I wasn't aware that charities and non-profits were supposed to be so generalized. I thought targeting specific issues was part of the point, to have a greater chance at solving at least one problem. The net effect of this organization's efforts will be to elevat…

There should be zero targeting of ethnicity. Excluding people based on ethnicity is wrong, no matter what the ethnic group is. And what makes you so sure that black men would relate to black women better than they would men of other ethnic backgrounds? Which is the bigger divider, gender or ethnicity?

The point I am making isn't that this isn't a good thing, because as I said in my original post, helping any disadvantaged group of people is a good thing. I'm simply pointing out the hypocrisy in doing it based on race. Why not make it CityGirlsCode? If the argument for BlackGirlsCode is so logical, why would it be wrong to have an organization called WhiteGirlsCode in the poor areas of Appalachia? It's wrong in both instances, its just that modern political correctness has taught you that it's ok to discriminate based on race as long as it isn't favoring whites.

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#23

Post by gardenshoes » Wed, Jul 18, 2012, 6:43 PM UTC

[deleted] wrote: post #17

JPKab wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bad in this would be a young black girl trying to bring her hispanic friend. Exclusion is exclusion. If this were the WhiteBoysSew club, you would call it racist, despite the fact that very few white boys learn to sew.

[deleted]

I think his point is that the program is being racist (in the sense that it is preferring a race to another), which we are conditioned to think of as wrong. But, because it benefits a minority, it's okay.

It's also sexist.

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#24

Post by _delirium » Wed, Jul 18, 2012, 6:44 PM UTC

jbattle wrote: post #19

JPKab wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bad in this would be a young black girl trying to bring her hispanic friend. Exclusion is exclusion. If this were the WhiteBoysSew club, you would call it racist, despite the fact that very few white boys learn to sew.

I would be a little surprised if anyone seriously objected to a sewing for boys class

There actually are groups like that for areas where men are historically underrepresented, such as the American Assembly for Men in Nursing (http://aamn.org/). As far as I know they don't get a lot of flak.

With white people in specific there is a bit of eyebrow-raising, because "white" is a bit broad, a historically dominant group (in the U.S.), and has some history of "white organizations" being intended mainly for exclusionary purposes. Despite being white myself, I would probably be skeptical of the intentions of someone who asked me to join an organization with "white" in the name. More specific organizations targeting subsets of white people are common, though. For example, there are scholarship programs for Americans of Greek ancestry. There are also a number of initiatives targeting "Rural Appalachians", which is not definitionally white, but is almost exclusively an identity held by white people.

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#25

Post by TechNewb » Wed, Jul 18, 2012, 6:44 PM UTC

JPKab wrote: post #13

I realize that the realities of the limited resources available for charities and non-profits is what leads to the ethnic and gender based targeting, but this just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Is it a good cause? Yes. Teaching any disadvantaged group a useful skill is a great thing, but solving a problem of exclusion with further exclusion is, in principal, bad. I grew up in a poor, mostly black, rural county in V…

Agreed. This fits the definition of racism: "Prejudice or discrimination directed against someone of a different race based on such a belief."

Any targeting based on the color of skin is wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right. Charity should be called something that does that imply racial discrimination.

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#26

Post by mindstab » Wed, Jul 18, 2012, 6:48 PM UTC

JPKab wrote: post #22

peterwwillis wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you're saying that charities should do a breakdown of all the demographics in a given area, and spend exactly the same resources on getting them all help? I wasn't aware that charities and non-profits were supposed to be so generalized. I thought targeting specific issues was part of the point, to have a greater chance at solving at least one problem. The net effect of this organization's efforts will be to elevat…

There should be zero targeting of ethnicity. Excluding people based on ethnicity is wrong, no matter what the ethnic group is. And what makes you so sure that black men would relate to black women better than they would men of other ethnic backgrounds? Which is the bigger divider, gender or ethnicity? The point I am making isn't that this isn't a good thing, because as I said in my original post, helping any disadvan…

You don't get it. By "not discriminating" you are essentially discriminating against everyone who isn't in the majority. People are not these ideal unxenophobic people. You say you grew up in a black neighborhood but I'm going to guess you are a white male yourself.

People group by like and are often exclusionary. Look at Gnome and Google's summer of code. They have started doing specifically female targeted ones because they females are there but aren't applying to the normal ones for a myrid of reasons plenty of which are mighty valid.

I'm sorry but targeted helping is needed and is a good thing. Stop over reacting because for the first time you almost nearly kind of feel the sting of discrimination. All is not even close to equal.

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#27

Post by slurgfest » Wed, Jul 18, 2012, 6:49 PM UTC

JPKab wrote: post #13

I realize that the realities of the limited resources available for charities and non-profits is what leads to the ethnic and gender based targeting, but this just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Is it a good cause? Yes. Teaching any disadvantaged group a useful skill is a great thing, but solving a problem of exclusion with further exclusion is, in principal, bad. I grew up in a poor, mostly black, rural county in V…

If some black girls want to code, what possible reason do you have to object? Let them. Leave them alone, if you aren't supportive. That's all you need to do.

The group isn't preventing white people from coding. If you want white people to code, you can make your own group. And it will fly really well anywhere in the South and many places in the West and you won't have to say anything about how it's only for white people, there are a hundred ways that can be signaled.

Again, if you want to help boys specifically - I actually think that's an important target for 'affirmative action' because boys are falling so far behind in academic achievement. Do it. Good for you.

And good for the people trying to help black girls

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#28

Post by grannyg00se » Wed, Jul 18, 2012, 6:49 PM UTC

"Our mission with BlackGirlsCode is to “change the ratio” of women of color in technology and that begins with introducing computer programming and STEM subjects to girls of all colors at an early age. "

It's not only for black girls. I suspect it's for all but white though so they still exclude based on color. And of course age and gender.

I really wish people would stop reinforcing racial discrimination of all sorts. Even the age discrimination is a bit offensive. I understand it may be easier to get funding when you can present a narrow group.

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#29

Post by _pius » Wed, Jul 18, 2012, 6:51 PM UTC

mibbitier wrote: post #21

_pius wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read your rant a few times and I've yet to see your point. Charities should be based on need and helping the greater good, not on playing favorites. This isn't a charity. A black woman started this program to address a legitimate need that she saw. Others who agreed with her gave her money to do it. Where is the bad in this? How is this anything but a net positive for the world?

I'd guess the bad bit is the sexism and racism. Would you be so positive if it was some program that excluded any applicant that wasn't a white male?

This: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4262233

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#30

Post by TwiztidK » Wed, Jul 18, 2012, 6:51 PM UTC

dusing wrote: post #2

I like the idea of the program, but specifically "Black girls"...

To me it seems that if every thing is going to be broken down demographically to this extent, there will have to be: Black Girls Code, Hispanic Girls Code, Native American Girls Code, and then additional groups for minority males. At that point it seems to get kind of ridiculous as every potential minority-gender combination will need its own group which just seems kind of inefficient to me. I could be horribly wrong though, but that's just how it seems as a white-male outsider.

To an extent, I think that black people, and black girls specifically, not going into CS is really a symptom of a bigger problem. I went to a high school with a lot of black guys and girls and, at least for my graduating class, it really didn't seem like many went to college. Although, Black Girls Code could help get people interested in going to college to further study CS or anything else really. Either way, it'll be really interesting to see how it goes.