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Extracting AI models from mobile apps

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Re: Extracting AI models from mobile apps

#21

Post by nadermx »

dialup_sounds wrote: post #19
mcny wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Circumventing a copy-prevention system without a valid exemption is a crime, even if you don't make unlawful copies. Copyright covers the right to make copies, not the right to distribute; "doing what you want with it yourself" may or may not be covered by fair use. Whether or not model weights are copyrightable remains an open question. If that is the law, it is a defect that we need to fix. Laws do not come down f…

Time shifting is protected by 40 years of judicial precedent establishing it as fair use.

This is being tested in the courts currently, https://torrentfreak.com/appeals-court-hears-riaa-and-yout-i...

Re: Extracting AI models from mobile apps

#22

Post by slowmovintarget »

Lerc wrote: post #10
wat10000 wrote: post #4

“ Keep in mind that AI models, like most things, are considered intellectual property. Before using or modifying any extracted models, you need the explicit permission of their owner.” That’s not true, is it? It would be a copyright violation to distribute an extracted model, but you can do what you want with it yourself.

I'm not even sure if event the first part is true. Has it been determined if AI models are intellectual property? Machine generated content may not be copyrightable. It isn't just the output of generative AI that falls under this, the models themselves are. Can you copyright a set of coefficients for a formula? In the sense of a JPEG it would be considered that the image being reproduced is the thing that has the cop…

Datasets want to be free.

Re: Extracting AI models from mobile apps

#23

Post by ToucanLoucan »

SunlitCat wrote: post #11
JTyQZSnP3cQGa8B wrote: post #3

> Keep in mind that AI models [...] are considered intellectual property Is it ironic or missing a /s? I can't really tell here.

To be honest, that was my first thought on reading that headline as well. Given that especially those large companies (but who knows how smaller ones got their training data) got a huge amount of backlash for their unprecedented collection of data all over the web and not just there but everywhere else, it's kinda ironic to talk about intellectual property. If you use one of those AI model as a basis for your AI mode…

Standard corporate hypocrisy. "Rules for thee, not for me."

If you actually expected anything to be open about OpenAI's products, please get in touch, I have an incredible business opportunity for you in the form of a bridge in New York.

Re: Extracting AI models from mobile apps

#24

Post by nthingtohide »

One thing I noticed in Gboard is it uses homeomorphic encryption to do federated learning of common words used amongst public to do encrypted suggestions.

E.g. there are two common spelling of bizarre which are popular on Gboard : bizzare and bizarre.

Can something similar help in model encryption?

Re: Extracting AI models from mobile apps

#26

Post by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF »

rpdillon wrote: post #12
jdietrich wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Circumventing a copy-prevention system without a valid exemption is a crime, even if you don't make unlawful copies. Copyright covers the right to make copies, not the right to distribute; "doing what you want with it yourself" may or may not be covered by fair use. Whether or not model weights are copyrightable remains an open question. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/1201

Your comment confused me, but I'm very interested in what you're getting at. > Circumventing a copy-prevention system without a valid exemption is a crime, even if you don't make unlawful copies. Yep, this is the DMCA section 1201. Late '90s law in the US. > Copyright covers the right to make copies, not the right to distribute This is where I got confused. Copyright covers four rights: copying, distribution, creatio…

Here is the relevant text in the law:

> No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title.

The inclusion of “work protected under this title” makes it clear in the law, though I doubt a judge would rule otherwise without that line. (Otherwise, I’d wonder if I could claim damages that Google et al. are violating the technological measures I’ve put in place to protect the specificity of my interests, because it wouldn’t matter that such is not protected by copyright law.)

Also not an attorney, for what it’s worth.

Re: Extracting AI models from mobile apps

#27

Post by zitterbewegung »

boothby wrote: post #25

If I understand the position of major players in this field, downloading models in bulk and training a ML model on that corpus shouldn't violate anybody's IP.

IANAL But, this is not true it would be a piece of the software. If there is a copyright on the app itself it would extend to the model. Even models have licenses for example LLAMA is release under this license [1]

[1] https://github.com/meta-llama/llama/blob/main/LICENSE

Re: Extracting AI models from mobile apps

#28

Post by [deleted] »

hnlmorg wrote: post #17
wat10000 wrote: post #4

“ Keep in mind that AI models, like most things, are considered intellectual property. Before using or modifying any extracted models, you need the explicit permission of their owner.” That’s not true, is it? It would be a copyright violation to distribute an extracted model, but you can do what you want with it yourself.

It’s hard to say because as far as I know this stuff hasn’t been definitively tested on any courts that I know of. Europe not America. AI models are generally regarded as a company’s asset (like a customer database would also be), and rightly so given the cost required to generate one. But that’s a different matter entirely to copyright.

[deleted]

Re: Extracting AI models from mobile apps

#29

Post by blitzar »

zitterbewegung wrote: post #27
boothby wrote: post #25

If I understand the position of major players in this field, downloading models in bulk and training a ML model on that corpus shouldn't violate anybody's IP.

IANAL But, this is not true it would be a piece of the software. If there is a copyright on the app itself it would extend to the model. Even models have licenses for example LLAMA is release under this license [1] [1] https://github.com/meta-llama/llama/blob/main/LICENSE

If I understand the position of major players in this field, copyright itself is optional (for them at least).

Re: Extracting AI models from mobile apps

#30

Post by Drakim »

zitterbewegung wrote: post #27
boothby wrote: post #25

If I understand the position of major players in this field, downloading models in bulk and training a ML model on that corpus shouldn't violate anybody's IP.

IANAL But, this is not true it would be a piece of the software. If there is a copyright on the app itself it would extend to the model. Even models have licenses for example LLAMA is release under this license [1] [1] https://github.com/meta-llama/llama/blob/main/LICENSE

Is there a material difference between the copyright laws for software and the copyright laws for images and text?
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