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Unix Time and a Modest Proposal

johndcook.com

21–30 of 43 posts

Re: Unix Time and a Modest Proposal

#21

Wish I'd known about Swift's 'A Modest Proposal' first - I came expecting practical Unix time insights, but found an attempt at satire in need of both editing and purpose.

We're putting together a class action suit. Register here, you may be entitled to compensation:

Re: Unix Time and a Modest Proposal

#23

I agree, moving the earth's axis with respect to the sun seems actually feasible compared to getting a standards body to agree on coordinated change.

They should just solve the problem in the traditional way that international disputes have been settled, and have the most heavily armed member of the committee kill everyone that disagrees with them.

Re: Unix Time and a Modest Proposal

#24

The ratio is around 365.2422. Calling it 365 is too crude. Julius Caesar said we should call it 365 1/4, and that was good enough for a while. This is blowing my mind that thousands of years ago they were able to measure the orbits to this level of accuracy.

Internet "influencers" really have us convinced that humans were barbaric apes until a century or two ago and then suddenly invented the modern world. What about all the achievements before then? Could we not have used math and science a few thousand years ago? Nope, it was all aliens of course.

Re: Unix Time and a Modest Proposal

#25
post #17

If you have problem with Unix time you are probably using it wrong. It is monotonically rising timer that increments every second. That's it. It doesn't care about leap second, leap years or any of the orbits.

Unfortunately, that isn't true.

https://www.wired.com/2012/07/leap-second-glitch-explained/ https://developers.google.com/time/smear

Re: Unix Time and a Modest Proposal

#26
post #19
post #17

If you have problem with Unix time you are probably using it wrong. It is monotonically rising timer that increments every second. That's it. It doesn't care about leap second, leap years or any of the orbits.

wrong. unix time is discontinuous around leap seconds. If you think you have no problems with unix time, it's because you never noticed them. TAI is what you want.

> unix time is discontinuous around leap seconds.

Wrong. It's continuous, it's just not monotonically increasing.

Re: Unix Time and a Modest Proposal

#27
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

wrong. unix time is discontinuous around leap seconds. If you think you have no problems with unix time, it's because you never noticed them. TAI is what you want.

> unix time is discontinuous around leap seconds. Wrong. It's continuous, it's just not monotonically increasing.

Feel free to update the wikipedia article in line with your opinion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_time

Re: Unix Time and a Modest Proposal

#29

The ratio is around 365.2422. Calling it 365 is too crude. Julius Caesar said we should call it 365 1/4, and that was good enough for a while. This is blowing my mind that thousands of years ago they were able to measure the orbits to this level of accuracy.

Not a big deal, if you have some time and real estate.

Assume that you know about noons and solstices, and can catch either by watching a shadow of a post.

During a summer solstice, position two posts along the line of the rays / shadow; the longer the better. Watch the sun hit the same line during a winter solstice. Along the way, notice when, relative to the exact solstice moment, is the noon. Sometimes you'll miss the exact solstice moment because the sun will be below horizon.

A dozen or two years of watching and recording should show you that the positions of the sun during solstices, and the time oof the exact solstice positions relative to the noon, roughly repeat every 4 years.

For bonus points, mark the positions of bright stars, like Sirius, Vega, Arcturus, etc, and notice how they repeat their patterns on solstice days / nights. They will repeat every 365 days approximately (like solstices, yearly), and every 1641 days exactly (4 years).

This all takes a large, flat, undisturbed surface to put posts on, to mark angles.

Not a lot of work, and could fit in one lifetime pretty well, given some prior ideas of watching the sky and measuring angles.

Of course, as you improve your instruments, you will notice how your neat approximations actually are imprecise, etc, and you'll have to invent a Gregorian calendar to spread the error more uniformly :)

Re: Unix Time and a Modest Proposal

#30

The ratio is around 365.2422. Calling it 365 is too crude. Julius Caesar said we should call it 365 1/4, and that was good enough for a while. This is blowing my mind that thousands of years ago they were able to measure the orbits to this level of accuracy.

Not to tut-tut too much, because it is interesting the extent to which a lot of science is older than any of us tend to think[1], but this isn't so hard. You need two measurements:

1. A count of days. Have your acyolytes put a rock in a jar every morning, whatever. Tedious, but easy.

2. A measurement of the sun's highest[2] angle each day. Harder, but not that hard. Put a stick in the ground and have the acolytes spend their lunch carefully moving a pebble to see how close the shadow gets to the base of the stick, then carefully paint the ground to show where the pebbles have been. Change the color each year. If it's cloudy, paint a line between the dots to interpolate.

Do this for four years. You'll note that the highest point of the fourth year is 4x365+1 days, give or take. Do it for a decade or two and you'll see that 365.25 isn't quite right either because you're still a little off.

It requires patience and rigor, but those aren't modern inventions.

[1] While a lot of it, including most of medicine, is much younger than we'd expect.

[2] Or lowest. But acolytes prefer to do their tedious stuff in the summer, lest they start engaging in idolatry and moon worship or whatever.

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