How your startup is getting lapped by companies who know how to hire • Hacker News Board

Re: How your startup is getting lapped by companies who know how to hire

#21

Post by l3amm » Tue, Jul 17, 2012, 2:00 AM UTC

MaxGabriel wrote: post #10

What advice would you give to someone who's getting a slow response?

It really depends on the size of organization. For something like Google, I would say that long-response times are the norm and frequently the recruiter/contact person are extremely swamped and may have forgotten about you. Not necessarily because you aren't good, but because their volume is insane. In this case I would write a quick letter that says "Thanks, I really enjoyed meeting X (person you talked to). We had a good conversation and I wanted to check if you needed any more information from me." This is generally enough to push them if they are inclined to pursue you, if they didn't like you for whatever reason then they probably won't respond or will reject you. If they don't respond after that I would say send one more email about a week later that is slightly more urgent (considering other offers, etc). If they don't respond to that, then it's best to let that one go.

For smaller companies, they most likely don't have the resources to keep in touch with everyone. For me, this is the main value of an Applicant Tracking System: making sure no one falls through the cracks. That being said, most small companies don't have them, so they are relying on their memory + spreadsheet to carry them through.

If you're working through an external recruiter: talk to them, they have every incentive to push you through the pipeline and have a direct read on the process.

If you have a contact in the company or you met with someone in person: send them a quick follow up email is enough to move the pipeline usually.

If you've blind applied: then I would suggest sending them a quick note to get back onto their priority queue. Whomever is in charge of the process WANTS to respond to everyone, but if they don't see a fresh email sitting in their inbox, they quite possibly have forgotten that you're in the pipeline.

Also as mentioned below, pursuing many job opportunities in parallel is good for you and can be a great forcing-function/bargaining chip in late-stage hiring processes.

Re: How your startup is getting lapped by companies who know how to hire

#22

Post by vosper » Tue, Jul 17, 2012, 2:49 AM UTC

nickbarnwell wrote: post #2

This is, in my opinion, one of the largest issues startups face today. OSS and a culture of blogging have significantly reduced the barriers to entry for many technical issues including, but not limited to, scaling, data processing, and even general development. What's still just as difficult is building the right team - my personal pain point is university recruiting, but it's bad across the board. If you're a start…

I completely agree that technical recruiting is open to disruption, and I hope that it soon will be, however: given the fees that barely technical recruiters extract now, what hope is there for a truly talented, highly technical recruiter who needs to get paid at least what (s)he could make in a technical role (120k minimum)

Re: How your startup is getting lapped by companies who know how to hire

#23

Post by xiaoma » Tue, Jul 17, 2012, 3:17 AM UTC

Yes, this has been maddening for me as well. For all of the people on this site claiming the market is "red hot", job hunting in the bay area has been slow. I have dealt with a couple of really well run companies that made it through the process quickly, but others have all kinds of HR filters and take weeks to even get a phone screen.

In contrast, I was able to join a start-up within three weeks of beginning my search in 2010 in Beijing... and that was before I had any professional experience. They made the decision on the basis of a couple of interviews and a couple of retro flash games I'd done as a hobby project.

Incidentally, if anyone in SF is looking for someone who can code and a proven record of hustle, my contact info is on my profile page.

Re: How your startup is getting lapped by companies who know how to hire

#24

Post by l3amm » Tue, Jul 17, 2012, 3:47 AM UTC

vosper wrote: post #22

nickbarnwell wrote: post #2

This is, in my opinion, one of the largest issues startups face today. OSS and a culture of blogging have significantly reduced the barriers to entry for many technical issues including, but not limited to, scaling, data processing, and even general development. What's still just as difficult is building the right team - my personal pain point is university recruiting, but it's bad across the board. If you're a start…

I completely agree that technical recruiting is open to disruption, and I hope that it soon will be, however: given the fees that barely technical recruiters extract now, what hope is there for a truly talented, highly technical recruiter who needs to get paid at least what (s)he could make in a technical role (120k minimum)

Sadly, I think this is right. I know several recruiters at a big-name recruiting agency in Silicon Valley, they try to act like an internal recruiter (thorough vetting of candidates, understanding company culture, etc) and they make much less money than if they had just adopted the pay and spray mentality of their peers.

The bright hope for me is darwinian: if enough startups refuse to use these pay and sprayers then they will die off, leaving only the higher quality recruiters. Will that happen? Not any time soon.

Re: How your startup is getting lapped by companies who know how to hire

#25

Post by textminer » Tue, Jul 17, 2012, 4:03 AM UTC

l3amm wrote: post #16

praptak wrote: post #15

"If you can't pull the process together to make a quick decision, you're not only going to lose people, but you're going to signal that you can't move quickly on other decisions as well, whether or not this is really the case." This one is important. Recruitment leaves impressions on the candidates. You better make sure the impressions are positive ones, because they matter a lot. The world is small. An unsuccessful…

Totally agree, I think of hiring as a chance to create company cultural emissaries. The best companies turn potential recruits into advocates for their brand, so even if they don't end up working at the company they tell their friends about how good the process and company are. See http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/FindingGreatDeveloper... Palantir is another company that does this well at Stanford. Those track…

Funny you say that. Finding a job recently, Palantir was the absolute worst at the recruiting process. At the end of their two months, in one two-week span I interviewed at and received offers from two much smaller startups. I told my recruiter at the end of the all-day interview that I needed to make a decision by the end of the week on other offers (it was Monday). I didn't hear from her for another ten days, at my prompting. She was frazzled, passed me on to another recruiter, who asked if I could come in again for another all-day. Needless to say, I declined and went with one of the offers I already had.

Re: How your startup is getting lapped by companies who know how to hire

#26

Post by l3amm » Tue, Jul 17, 2012, 4:31 AM UTC

textminer wrote: post #25

l3amm wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally agree, I think of hiring as a chance to create company cultural emissaries. The best companies turn potential recruits into advocates for their brand, so even if they don't end up working at the company they tell their friends about how good the process and company are. See http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/FindingGreatDeveloper... Palantir is another company that does this well at Stanford. Those track…

Funny you say that. Finding a job recently, Palantir was the absolute worst at the recruiting process. At the end of their two months, in one two-week span I interviewed at and received offers from two much smaller startups. I told my recruiter at the end of the all-day interview that I needed to make a decision by the end of the week on other offers (it was Monday). I didn't hear from her for another ten days, at my…

That's really too bad. I don't work with/for them, but I know many of the recruiting team and they have been very responsive to feedback in the past. If you have specific comments/critiques feel free to message me, I'd be happy to pass them on.

Re: How your startup is getting lapped by companies who know how to hire

#27

Post by drblast » Tue, Jul 17, 2012, 4:51 AM UTC

Many companies I've dealt with seem to forget that the person they're interviewing probably isn't interviewing with just one company.

The last place I worked for (government) was maddening in this respect. We'd find a great candidate and HR would delay or otherwise jerk them around, and then have the gall to be shocked when the person accepted another offer.

In my recent job search the company I joined had a written offer to me within a day or two. Others contacted me weeks later with offers, even after I told them I was considering multiple offers at the time.

I don't think most candidates will tell you that, but that's likely the case. You snooze, you lose. There aren't many reasons you can't make an offer within a week after an interview.

Re: How your startup is getting lapped by companies who know how to hire

#28

Post by joe_the_user » Tue, Jul 17, 2012, 4:56 AM UTC

xiaoma wrote: post #23

Yes, this has been maddening for me as well. For all of the people on this site claiming the market is "red hot", job hunting in the bay area has been slow . I have dealt with a couple of really well run companies that made it through the process quickly, but others have all kinds of HR filters and take weeks to even get a phone screen. In contrast, I was able to join a start-up within three weeks of beginning my sea…

As far as I would guess, the market is hot if you meet all ten of the bullshit this is how you spot rockstars this week criteria. Otherwise it's slow.

The thing is, the GP is only about hiring the magic people super fast - as soon you see them, yeah! Which isn't going to make more magic people.

The hire-ers might just think about making their process a bit wider rather than chasing the same things over and over again. Give more people a chance to show some ability rather than passing the same mantra about A-players back and forth.

Re: How your startup is getting lapped by companies who know how to hire

#29

Post by l3amm » Tue, Jul 17, 2012, 5:22 AM UTC

joe_the_user wrote: post #28

xiaoma wrote: post #23

Yes, this has been maddening for me as well. For all of the people on this site claiming the market is "red hot", job hunting in the bay area has been slow . I have dealt with a couple of really well run companies that made it through the process quickly, but others have all kinds of HR filters and take weeks to even get a phone screen. In contrast, I was able to join a start-up within three weeks of beginning my sea…

As far as I would guess, the market is hot if you meet all ten of the bullshit this is how you spot rockstars this week criteria. Otherwise it's slow. The thing is, the GP is only about hiring the magic people super fast - as soon you see them, yeah! Which isn't going to make more magic people. The hire-ers might just think about making their process a bit wider rather than chasing the same things over and over again…

This is an excellent point. The analogy I like to use is based on prospecting: you can try to find fully-formed gold from the earth or you can smelt down ore into something useful. Right now the valley is full of prospectors stealing gold nuggets from each other, and I think there is a ton of opportunity to transform smart, hardworking people into great employees.

Of course this requires time and training, which some start-ups feel they can't afford. In the end I think it's worth it to focus on finding talent that can learn quickly rather than emerge from Zeus's brain fully-formed.

Re: How your startup is getting lapped by companies who know how to hire

#30

Post by Cabal » Tue, Jul 17, 2012, 2:16 PM UTC

praptak wrote: post #15

"If you can't pull the process together to make a quick decision, you're not only going to lose people, but you're going to signal that you can't move quickly on other decisions as well, whether or not this is really the case." This one is important. Recruitment leaves impressions on the candidates. You better make sure the impressions are positive ones, because they matter a lot. The world is small. An unsuccessful…

Seconded. After a 3 month (!!) off-and-on interviewing process at Rackspace, you can be sure they will have zero of my business in the future.