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Lou's Pseudo 3D Page (2013)

extentofthejam.com

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Re: Lou's Pseudo 3D Page (2013)

#21

Post by zackmorris »

Kinda cool, I've never seen these techniques all in one place before. Growing up, I thought that SNES mode 7 scaling was so cool:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mode_7

The article mentions about halfway down the page that what made the 80s road rendering technique possible was racing the beam. Where say an Atari 2600 would toggle the color at certain pixel counts as the TV's electron beam swept the screen, producing graphics that seemed otherwise impossible from such underpowered hardware:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racing_the_Beam

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJFnWZH5FXc

Some engines allowed for say 8 hardcoded sprites this way by toggling colors at each sprite's position, with various rules about overlapping, so sprites would flicker sometimes when they were next to each other.

Re: Lou's Pseudo 3D Page (2013)

#22

Post by duskwuff »

MaximilianEmel wrote: post #20

When does Pseudo 3D cross the threshold into Real 3D?

What makes these techniques "pseudo" 3D is that they can only render one very specific type of scene (a road), and even then only under various constraints (road must be in front of the camera, road must continue to the horizon, etc). "Real 3D" typically implies a more general scene renderer.

Re: Lou's Pseudo 3D Page (2013)

#23

Post by TapamN »

elevationapi wrote: post #12

I remember Vroom killing the game on Atari ST : https://youtu.be/Z-RELFjDu_8?si=giyiDpRqUPNSNEK9 Insane depth of view with fluidity for the time

Also on the Sega Genesis/MegaDrive as F1 World Championship, and a sequel, Kawasaki Superbike Challenge.

Re: Lou's Pseudo 3D Page (2013)

#25

Post by anilakar »

MaximilianEmel wrote: post #20

When does Pseudo 3D cross the threshold into Real 3D?

Back in the day it was probably easy to move goalposts as techniques advanced. Do remember that Duke 3D's Build engine did not draw a true 3D environment by today's standards, and Novalogic's Voxel Space did not use voxels but a heightmap with painter's algorithm.

My personal opinion is that to qualify as 2.5D the game engine must internally use a 3D coordinate system even if the render process is 2D, and 3D requires a true 3D to 3D conversion.

Re: Lou's Pseudo 3D Page (2013)

#26

Post by duskwuff »

InsideOutSanta wrote: post #11
Netcob wrote: post #10

I love the ingenuity, I also love youtube documentaries on this topic, but... as a child (in the 90s), I did not like these pseudo 3D racing games at all! Mode 7 on the SNES was usually fine. I don't know how accurately it rendered a single flat surface in 3D, but it felt real enough and responsive enough. Except for the very rare cases where they simulated non-flat surfaces (Speed Racer, Super Off-Road), even though…

IMO it greatly depends on the game. Very advanced games that used this technique, like OutRun in the arcade, really almost feel like you're driving on a road with real turns. Lotus Turbo Challenge on the Amiga also does a pretty good job giving you the illusion that you're actually approaching turns, i.e. that there is a turn ahead of you and it is coming towards you. But most games that implemented this technique we…

> But most games that implemented this technique were much more primitive, and just amounted to "bending" the road to indicate turns, which never feels like there's actually a turn coming towards you. It just feels like the road is suddenly changing its shape.

After looking at a couple videos, I think the "secret sauce" was having objects along the sides of the road to reinforce the illusion of movement. Even in OutRun, sequences where the player drives past objects like trees or road signs feel more convincing than ones in open areas.

Re: Lou's Pseudo 3D Page (2013)

#27

Post by Netcob »

InsideOutSanta wrote: post #11
Netcob wrote: post #10

I love the ingenuity, I also love youtube documentaries on this topic, but... as a child (in the 90s), I did not like these pseudo 3D racing games at all! Mode 7 on the SNES was usually fine. I don't know how accurately it rendered a single flat surface in 3D, but it felt real enough and responsive enough. Except for the very rare cases where they simulated non-flat surfaces (Speed Racer, Super Off-Road), even though…

IMO it greatly depends on the game. Very advanced games that used this technique, like OutRun in the arcade, really almost feel like you're driving on a road with real turns. Lotus Turbo Challenge on the Amiga also does a pretty good job giving you the illusion that you're actually approaching turns, i.e. that there is a turn ahead of you and it is coming towards you. But most games that implemented this technique we…

A few days ago I made a 50x timelapse of a drive using my dashcam and... oddly enough, that looked exactly like that pseudo 3D effect. It looks like the road is just bending left and right, whipping around out of the blue, while everything else is stationary.

Re: Lou's Pseudo 3D Page (2013)

#28

Post by TacticalCoder »

You cango pretty far with fake 3D.For example you can take the same type of technique but then additionally move vertical "bars" of eight pixel (going along the entire screen) and it feels like the car/bike is turning more.

Here's an example from the early 90s in a PC DOS game (Word Rally Fever, heavily inspired by Power Drift):

https://youtu.be/tn4lK2-pUxw

FWIW it was made by friends of mine, got published by Team 17, and I was a beta-tester of that one :)

Re: Lou's Pseudo 3D Page (2013)

#29

Post by ch_sm »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #28

You cango pretty far with fake 3D.For example you can take the same type of technique but then additionally move vertical "bars" of eight pixel (going along the entire screen) and it feels like the car/bike is turning more. Here's an example from the early 90s in a PC DOS game (Word Rally Fever, heavily inspired by Power Drift): https://youtu.be/tn4lK2-pUxw FWIW it was made by friends of mine, got published by Team 1…

Very cool, thanks for sharing! I’m a huge fan of this Super-Scaler inspired style, and had never heard about this!
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