Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A federal policy change in the 1980s created the modern food desert

theatlantic.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 123 posts

Re: A federal policy change in the 1980s created the modern food desert

#21

Post by tcbawo »

llm_trw wrote: post #9
Arainach wrote: post #2

Once again, much of the state of America can be summarized as "this awful experience is a direct result of the Reagan administration, but most people don't realize it".

If only a democrat majority had been elected at any point in the last 40 years that could have fixed this.

Many or nearly all policy votes happen along party these days. Has any party been able to overcome the Senate filibuster? There was a brief period in 2009 after the inauguration of Al Franken until Senator Kennedy’s death in August of that year. Not a lot of time to change policies, and every new act of Congress brings in both good, bad, and unintended side effects. Very little in the intervening years has improved bipartisan cooperation.

Re: A federal policy change in the 1980s created the modern food desert

#22

Post by haroldp »

Isn't this a roundabout way of saying that, absent government coercion, consumer preference tends to be towards buying cheaper groceries at a big consolidated store a drive away, than a more expensive nearby store?

Isn't the real boogieman here rules (zoning, parking requirements, etc) and subsidies (oil industry) than mean we all live in diffuse single-use residential communities and have to have cars to get to work/school/shop, whether we really want them or not?

Re: A federal policy change in the 1980s created the modern food desert

#23

Post by aaomidi »

shadowtree wrote: post #20

Consumers vote with their wallets that they prefer the big box stores. Reagan removed bargaining restrictions on big box stores, which lowered prices. Bad or good for consumers? Does it matter if you need to drive 8 or 11 miles (non-desert vs. desert) to buy boxed cereals and processed food? CostCo rides the same dynamic, at scale. CostCo deserts? Want to fix it, HN-style? Create a startup! But more regulation? Ffs.

You’re being super disingenuous if you’re comparing it between 8 and 11 miles.

Re: A federal policy change in the 1980s created the modern food desert

#24

Post by BJones12 »

somethoughts wrote: post #13

Its kind of interesting if Walmart and/or Costco has squeezed prices so low that you could potentially use it as the basis for informal neighborhood bulk buying co-op. Like an Uber app which coordinated grocery buying and splitting up bulk packaged foods into smaller purchase sizes.

Here's an example of that - https://thehustle.co/the-man-feeding-a-remote-alaska-town-wi...

Re: A federal policy change in the 1980s created the modern food desert

#25

Post by selimthegrim »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #4
Arainach wrote: post #2

Once again, much of the state of America can be summarized as "this awful experience is a direct result of the Reagan administration, but most people don't realize it".

I was listening to a podcast that mentioned something today that got worse in the eighties, and one host asked the other to guess the cause. I blurted out "Reagan" as I was listening, and was correct. Alas, I don't remember what specific thing they were discussing.

This is reminiscent of Uncle Ruckus’ visit to White Heaven in The Boondocks

Re: A federal policy change in the 1980s created the modern food desert

#26

Post by hindsightbias »

GeneralMayhem wrote: post #18
llm_trw wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only a democrat majority had been elected at any point in the last 40 years that could have fixed this.

Democrats have not had a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate since before Reagan, and they're constantly up against the asymmetry that breaking things is a lot easier than building them. The side that wants government not to work has a huge structural advantage in any argument (even apart from their structural electoral advantages thanks to letting empty fields carry as much weight as cities) since they "win" by…

> filibuster-proof majority

They had 72 Days in 2009 to fix everything! Both parties are the same! /s

Re: A federal policy change in the 1980s created the modern food desert

#27

Post by brendoelfrendo »

llm_trw wrote: post #8
yyuugg wrote: post #6

[flagged]

At some point you have to blame the other people who kept it going for 50 years now.

I think this is true, and is a big failing on the part of Democrats to seize an opportunity to do something that would have been generally popular. I think it's funny that the modern Democratic party bends over backwards to please corporate interests, when those corporations are far more interested in Republican politicians. The recent crop of anti-trust investigations has been encouraging, but smacks of a "too little, too late" change of course, especially when this article notes that there is a law on the books (and it is still on the books, despite over forty years of non-enforcement) that could have helped Democrats campaign on food prices, which were a huge concern for voters this year. It's probably Clinton's fault (Bill's, not Hillary's) for shifting the party further to the center to win in the 90s.

Re: A federal policy change in the 1980s created the modern food desert

#28

Post by haroldp »

asdasdsddd wrote: post #10

> Today, in fact, many Deanwood residents travel to a Safeway outside the neighborhood to shop. Isn't this the real issue? That we build on the assumption that everyone has a car?

Of course. Or to put it another way, since we are already forced to have cars to get by within the current organization of cities, consumers recognize that they can save considerable money by going to a big consolidated store instead of a small local one.

Re: A federal policy change in the 1980s created the modern food desert

#29

Post by somethoughts »

asdasdsddd wrote: post #14
somethoughts wrote: post #13

Its kind of interesting if Walmart and/or Costco has squeezed prices so low that you could potentially use it as the basis for informal neighborhood bulk buying co-op. Like an Uber app which coordinated grocery buying and splitting up bulk packaged foods into smaller purchase sizes.

I believe that's a thing for alibaba already

I don't think alibaba handles grocery as far as I know - at least in the US.

Probably it is most similar to Instacart/Amazon Grocery delivery but the issue with these is that they are more oriented toward high value, high convenience, high immediacy, highly customizable orders for groceries items.

The flip side would be a set time (i.e. Saturday or Sunday), a set location (i.e. local school parking lot), a set number of bulk items (i.e. eggs, bread, pasta, chicken legs, ground beef, milk).

Re: A federal policy change in the 1980s created the modern food desert

#30

Post by legitster »

> Prior to that, small towns and poor neighborhoods could generally count on having a grocery store, perhaps even several.

The small, corner grocery store back in the day didn't have much selection though. Hence the takeover of super-markets.

For better and worse, their role has mostly been supplanted by gas stations and dollar stores which still populate a lot of these food deserts.

Post reply on HN