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What does this button do? – My new car has a mysterious and undocumented switch

blog.koenvh.nl

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Re: What does this button do? – My new car has a mysterious and undocumented switch

#21

Post by K0balt »

Rygian wrote: post #6
K0balt wrote: post #3

While you do own the hardware, you probably don’t own the data, licenses, and software in the SIM so you might not be entitled to the data it transmits once it hits the carriers network.

Well,[the data it transmits] it's personal information, so the owner of the car has a very explicit right to it. (Car plates are from an EU country.)

I don’t know how that would work, since that data is the personal information of whoever is in the car at the time of collection, so I would guess that the applicant to get the info would have to substantiate that they were in the car at the time, regardless of the ownership of the car.

Or maybe just ownership of the car is enough? I kind of suspect it might not be though.

Re: What does this button do? – My new car has a mysterious and undocumented switch

#22

Post by Arainach »

TomK32 wrote: post #19
hoistbypetard wrote: post #10

> “can I get free data from the SIM card embedded in the device that I now technically own?” That seems like the next-most-interesting question now that you've determined what the device is. Possibly followed closely by "can I use that free-to-me data in a fun way that might teach the people who installed the SIM to deactivate their devices when they sell them?" i.e. Could you send and receive enough on the connectio…

Even though the SIM was part of the car they bought, the SIM's contract is not in their name which means using the contract would be theft.

Is there case law on this? I don't see any way in which this is legally theft by the OP (admittedly my knowledge is more US-centric than Euro-centric). If I let someone tether a device to my cell phone (or loan my phone to them), are they committing theft?

The company on the contract voluntarily gave the SIM to OP.

Re: What does this button do? – My new car has a mysterious and undocumented switch

#23

Post by jonah »

gr33nq wrote: post #15

At first glance this reminded me of some Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor models which had similar unlabeled buttons. One would disable all exterior lights, including brake lights, for going into stealth/surveillance mode. An adjacent button was used to be able to remove the key and keep the engine running, while preventing the car from being shifted out of park until the key was inserted again. I haven't seen…

Many modern ambulances have a similar shifter disable switch so that it can be left running and someone can't take off with your ambulance while you're off collecting your patient.

Re: What does this button do? – My new car has a mysterious and undocumented switch

#24

Post by Xenoamorphous »

TomK32 wrote: post #19
hoistbypetard wrote: post #10

> “can I get free data from the SIM card embedded in the device that I now technically own?” That seems like the next-most-interesting question now that you've determined what the device is. Possibly followed closely by "can I use that free-to-me data in a fun way that might teach the people who installed the SIM to deactivate their devices when they sell them?" i.e. Could you send and receive enough on the connectio…

Even though the SIM was part of the car they bought, the SIM's contract is not in their name which means using the contract would be theft.

This can be difficult to grasp.

I bought an aparment 3.5 years ago and it had an alarm installed.

I called the security company to transfer ownership but that couldn’t be done without authorisation from the previous owner, which probably makes sense. The problem is, they were unreachable, and I was living on a house that I now owned, and which had cameras the previous owner could take pics from at any time.

My patience was running out so I threatened the security company with removing the cameras installed in the house I owned, but I was told that they owned them even if they were inside my house.

Re: What does this button do? – My new car has a mysterious and undocumented switch

#25

Post by afh1 »

The scary part is not the GPS installed by the fleet company that previously owned the car, which in all likelihood was just forgotten there, but the GPS and eSIM that comes with most (all?) new cars and that in most (all?) new cars cannot be disabled.

Apart from privacy concerns of your data being used or sold by the car vendor, government outreach is also a concern. There was a bill announced in the US for all new cars to be equipped with "driver impairment" tech which was called a "kill switch". Media rushed to say it's not really a kill switch, just "sensors or cameras to monitor the driver’s behaviors, head or eye movements" and "block the driver from operating the vehicle". So... a kill switch. https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-402773429497

Anyway, I'm staying with my old gas Honda until it dies which is probably never with proper maintenance and eventually restoration. I'll never go electric. Modern cars are just smartphones on wheels at this point, and smartphones are just spying devices at this point.

Re: What does this button do? – My new car has a mysterious and undocumented switch

#26

Post by neuralRiot »

pomian wrote: post #4

That was a fun read. It's interesting to think that they would leave it attached. Indeed, what could you do with that? Did you find the unit that the wires go to? Then you could open that up and see what chips, sensors etc are in there.

Used car dealers install those as per bank requirement to find the car in case it needs to be repoed, if the customer finishes the payment it just stays in the car but the account is disabled (the dealer pays a monthly fee for nothing otherwise). So basically it’s sending location data to nobody.

Re: What does this button do? – My new car has a mysterious and undocumented switch

#27

Post by jonah »

My car came with a similar toggle switch under the dash. I figured out it was to fully disable the ABS system. (The previous owner was a fan of taking his car two track days.)

I kept accidentally toggling it off with my knee, so I replaced it with a nice flush push button. I haven't tracked the car yet though.

Re: What does this button do? – My new car has a mysterious and undocumented switch

#28

Post by cosmotic »

TomK32 wrote: post #19
hoistbypetard wrote: post #10

> “can I get free data from the SIM card embedded in the device that I now technically own?” That seems like the next-most-interesting question now that you've determined what the device is. Possibly followed closely by "can I use that free-to-me data in a fun way that might teach the people who installed the SIM to deactivate their devices when they sell them?" i.e. Could you send and receive enough on the connectio…

Even though the SIM was part of the car they bought, the SIM's contract is not in their name which means using the contract would be theft.

The contract would likely say something to the effect of "I promise to pay for the data sent to or from this device" and nothing about the owner of the device. If anything was said about the owner, it would be that the responsibility of the original contract holder is to ensure the contract was terminated when the sale took place.

Re: What does this button do? – My new car has a mysterious and undocumented switch

#29

Post by robin_reala »

K0balt wrote: post #21
Rygian wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well,[the data it transmits] it's personal information, so the owner of the car has a very explicit right to it. (Car plates are from an EU country.)

I don’t know how that would work, since that data is the personal information of whoever is in the car at the time of collection, so I would guess that the applicant to get the info would have to substantiate that they were in the car at the time, regardless of the ownership of the car. Or maybe just ownership of the car is enough? I kind of suspect it might not be though.

Other way around. The person processing the data has a duty to make sure that they have a legal basis.

Re: What does this button do? – My new car has a mysterious and undocumented switch

#30

Post by hedora »

Xenoamorphous wrote: post #24
TomK32 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even though the SIM was part of the car they bought, the SIM's contract is not in their name which means using the contract would be theft.

This can be difficult to grasp. I bought an aparment 3.5 years ago and it had an alarm installed. I called the security company to transfer ownership but that couldn’t be done without authorisation from the previous owner, which probably makes sense. The problem is, they were unreachable, and I was living on a house that I now owned, and which had cameras the previous owner could take pics from at any time . My patie…

At that point, you could point out that you have no contract with them, and that they’ve abandoned their property on your place.

The last time I checked, US property rights made it clear that you cannot just store stuff on other people’s land without permission, and then complain when they throw it away.

They could try to argue that whatever contract the previous owner signed still applies, but for that to be the case, they would have had to amend the deed to the property, and that should have been noticed by your title agency.

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