Live data from Hacker News

Performance improvement plans are on the rise

wsj.com

21–30 of 201 posts

Re: Performance improvement plans are on the rise

#21
post #5

There is nothing to hate here. I have given numerous PIP's as a manager and only actually fired once. The purpose of a PIP is to improve, not to fire a person.

How on earth can you be a good manager and not realize that saying "your performance is shit, we're going to fire you unless you take this course and we deem you've passed" is totally and utterly soul destroying to a person?

Re: Performance improvement plans are on the rise

#23

Going through the motions of a PIP is a pain if you're management. If someone gets PIP'ed then a decent manager already exhausted all other avenues to get a team member to start contributing at the expected level and the PIP is just to provide cover. You don't PIP a lower performing staff unless they're completely useless or toxic to the environment, you just find tasks that suit them better. At least in my experienc…

> You don't PIP a lower performing staff unless they're completely useless or toxic

Maybe this is part of the problem -- that it's called one thing (a plan to improve performance) but is used as another (legalese once you've already given up hope).

But I've never quite understood why. I imagine if I was a manager people would know if they are doing 20% as much as the best team member and would either be off the team or have shaped up within 6 months. That period where you genuinely are making sure that somebody understands you think they aren't doing well and clarify expectations seems valuable and ideally would happen long before it's too late.

Re: Performance improvement plans are on the rise

#25
post #5

There is nothing to hate here. I have given numerous PIP's as a manager and only actually fired once. The purpose of a PIP is to improve, not to fire a person.

I’ve never heard anyone brag about giving working PIPs. PIPs are pretty demoralizing even if they “work”.

Maybe you should consider giving people feedback in non-PIP form!

Re: Performance improvement plans are on the rise

#27
post #5

There is nothing to hate here. I have given numerous PIP's as a manager and only actually fired once. The purpose of a PIP is to improve, not to fire a person.

I've never been put under a PIP, but if I were, I'd be looking for a way out. The company has told me I suck and, even if I recovered, I'd be concerned that just having had it there would hurt any future progression I had in the company.

Re: Performance improvement plans are on the rise

#28

With at-will employment is a pip necessary? What happens if you fire someone who is performing?

People can take you to court for anything; pip is good way to protect against claims of wrongful termination. I agree in principle that at-will should make this unnecessary, but the reality of a litigious society makes pips a good move.

Re: Performance improvement plans are on the rise

#29
I got put on a PIP at Amazon, and even at the time I thought it was a reasonable criticism. I then worked hard, graduated out of the PIP, and stayed there a few more years. (I also opted-in to a second PIP (with my manager's knowledge and assistance) when I was leaving so I could get severance, but I don't really count that)

One of my current mentees got put on a PIP a couple years ago, and she likewise has significantly improved. (She also survived a round of layoffs a year later, which should speak to that)

So while PIPs might be started with the expectation that most employees won't improve, I think they're also started with the hope that they will.

Re: Performance improvement plans are on the rise

#30

With at-will employment is a pip necessary? What happens if you fire someone who is performing?

The issue is unemployment payments. In many states, if you fire someone without cause then you have to make the unemployment payments. If you fire with cause then you don't.
Post reply on HN