Bury me on the moon, preferably on the far side • Hacker News Board

Re: Bury me on the moon, preferably on the far side

#21

Post by JumpCrisscross » Mon, Dec 02, 2024, 6:57 PM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #12

> so why not agree to leave it unmarred by any obvious act of humanity, forevermore? How some people hate humanity. Personally, I'd love to see the lights from a lunar colony on the moon. This reminds me of the people who don't want to "pollute" Mars. Sheesh, it's a dead rock. There is no environment to pollute. It could desperately use people on it, just like the moon. The solar system is ours, and we can and should…

> it's a dead rock. There is no environment to pollute

I used to share this view until I read Kim Stanley Robinson's Red Mars. There is aesthetic value to preserving Mars in its pristine form, within reason, if only so future generations can enjoy it.

That doesn't mean full space NIMBY, as this article suggets. But it does argue against being cavalier about an alien landscape simply because it's lifeless.

Re: Bury me on the moon, preferably on the far side

#22

Post by fsckboy » Mon, Dec 02, 2024, 6:57 PM UTC

vacuity wrote: post #17

WalterBright wrote: post #12

> so why not agree to leave it unmarred by any obvious act of humanity, forevermore? How some people hate humanity. Personally, I'd love to see the lights from a lunar colony on the moon. This reminds me of the people who don't want to "pollute" Mars. Sheesh, it's a dead rock. There is no environment to pollute. It could desperately use people on it, just like the moon. The solar system is ours, and we can and should…

Is it an act of hatred to say that humans shouldn't expend huge amounts of effort and energy to try to populate Mars so that humans can escape the very human act of polluting the Earth? When this human pollution kills millions a year and plenty of other organisms? Is it a celebration of humanity to continue buying chocolate or clothing or rugs, even if they are clearly the result of exploited or downright slave labor…

human pollution kills millions a year? the only thing reducing the human population is decreased desire to have children by people who can afford them. Otherwise, more people are born, live longer, and die than ever before.

Re: Bury me on the moon, preferably on the far side

#23

Post by skibz » Mon, Dec 02, 2024, 6:58 PM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #12

> so why not agree to leave it unmarred by any obvious act of humanity, forevermore? How some people hate humanity. Personally, I'd love to see the lights from a lunar colony on the moon. This reminds me of the people who don't want to "pollute" Mars. Sheesh, it's a dead rock. There is no environment to pollute. It could desperately use people on it, just like the moon. The solar system is ours, and we can and should…

I think a more charitable interpretation of the suggestion you're quoting would be the opposite: how some people love nature.

As for Mars, suggesting that it is merely a "dead rock" with "no environment" grossly oversimplifies its geology. It's a seismically active planet with an atmosphere.

Re: Bury me on the moon, preferably on the far side

#24

Post by JumpCrisscross » Mon, Dec 02, 2024, 6:58 PM UTC

vacuity wrote: post #17

WalterBright wrote: post #12

> so why not agree to leave it unmarred by any obvious act of humanity, forevermore? How some people hate humanity. Personally, I'd love to see the lights from a lunar colony on the moon. This reminds me of the people who don't want to "pollute" Mars. Sheesh, it's a dead rock. There is no environment to pollute. It could desperately use people on it, just like the moon. The solar system is ours, and we can and should…

Is it an act of hatred to say that humans shouldn't expend huge amounts of effort and energy to try to populate Mars so that humans can escape the very human act of polluting the Earth? When this human pollution kills millions a year and plenty of other organisms? Is it a celebration of humanity to continue buying chocolate or clothing or rugs, even if they are clearly the result of exploited or downright slave labor…

> we, as humans who have privilege and comfort, deserve to continue and expand those qualities

Cutting down forests for farms asserts a human privilege. Arguing for colonies on the Moon or Mars isn't asserting a human privilege, it's arguing for a biological one: the privilege the living should enjoy over the non-living.

Re: Bury me on the moon, preferably on the far side

#25

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Dec 02, 2024, 6:58 PM UTC

fsckboy wrote: post #22

vacuity wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it an act of hatred to say that humans shouldn't expend huge amounts of effort and energy to try to populate Mars so that humans can escape the very human act of polluting the Earth? When this human pollution kills millions a year and plenty of other organisms? Is it a celebration of humanity to continue buying chocolate or clothing or rugs, even if they are clearly the result of exploited or downright slave labor…

human pollution kills millions a year? the only thing reducing the human population is decreased desire to have children by people who can afford them. Otherwise, more people are born, live longer, and die than ever before.

[deleted]

Re: Bury me on the moon, preferably on the far side

#26

Post by bryanlarsen » Mon, Dec 02, 2024, 6:58 PM UTC

thrance wrote: post #14

How much carbon dioxide is released into the atmosphere for a single rocket launch? How much labor and natural resources does it cost? I think it's extremely selfish to expect others to expend so much energy and time to carry your remains so far away, when you wouldn't know the difference. I also think seeing night lights from a city on the moon would be pretty cool.

> How much carbon dioxide is released into the atmosphere for a single rocket launch?

Approximately equivalent to a trans-pacific jet flight.

Re: Bury me on the moon, preferably on the far side

#27

Post by fsckboy » Mon, Dec 02, 2024, 6:59 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #21

WalterBright wrote: post #12

> so why not agree to leave it unmarred by any obvious act of humanity, forevermore? How some people hate humanity. Personally, I'd love to see the lights from a lunar colony on the moon. This reminds me of the people who don't want to "pollute" Mars. Sheesh, it's a dead rock. There is no environment to pollute. It could desperately use people on it, just like the moon. The solar system is ours, and we can and should…

> it's a dead rock. There is no environment to pollute I used to share this view until I read Kim Stanley Robinson's Red Mars . There is aesthetic value to preserving Mars in its pristine form, within reason, if only so future generations can enjoy it. That doesn't mean full space NIMBY, as this article suggets. But it does argue against being cavalier about an alien landscape simply because it's lifeless.

that aesthetic value of preservation exists basically in every choice we make. Or maybe we can stop believing the ancient superstitions that consider us not to be part of nature.

Re: Bury me on the moon, preferably on the far side

#28

Post by JumpCrisscross » Mon, Dec 02, 2024, 6:59 PM UTC

fsckboy wrote: post #27

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's a dead rock. There is no environment to pollute I used to share this view until I read Kim Stanley Robinson's Red Mars . There is aesthetic value to preserving Mars in its pristine form, within reason, if only so future generations can enjoy it. That doesn't mean full space NIMBY, as this article suggets. But it does argue against being cavalier about an alien landscape simply because it's lifeless.

that aesthetic value of preservation exists basically in every choice we make. Or maybe we can stop believing the ancient superstitions that consider us not to be part of nature.

> maybe we can stop believing the ancient superstitions that consider us not to be part of nature

What part of any argument in this thread requires this?

Also, being part of something doesn't mean you can't also be distinct from it, for the most part.

Re: Bury me on the moon, preferably on the far side

#29

Post by JumpCrisscross » Mon, Dec 02, 2024, 7:01 PM UTC

nikanj wrote: post #19

"I propose that we all agree to ban all permanent lunar development that is visible with the naked eye from Earth" Nimbys, now in space!

Would love a short story in which future humans sue the Theians [1] for obstructing their celestial views.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theia_(planet)

Re: Bury me on the moon, preferably on the far side

#30

Post by mulmen » Mon, Dec 02, 2024, 7:01 PM UTC

vacuity wrote: post #17

WalterBright wrote: post #12

> so why not agree to leave it unmarred by any obvious act of humanity, forevermore? How some people hate humanity. Personally, I'd love to see the lights from a lunar colony on the moon. This reminds me of the people who don't want to "pollute" Mars. Sheesh, it's a dead rock. There is no environment to pollute. It could desperately use people on it, just like the moon. The solar system is ours, and we can and should…

Is it an act of hatred to say that humans shouldn't expend huge amounts of effort and energy to try to populate Mars so that humans can escape the very human act of polluting the Earth? When this human pollution kills millions a year and plenty of other organisms? Is it a celebration of humanity to continue buying chocolate or clothing or rugs, even if they are clearly the result of exploited or downright slave labor…

Colonizing the moon and improving life on Earth are not mutually exclusive pursuits. Both are possible and the space program has given us constant technological improvements to help improve life on Earth. We’re more likely to do both together than picking only one.