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How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

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Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#21

Post by fny »

lijok wrote: post #6

Astonishing. Completely backwards. This article describes how to give feedback to your subordinates, not to your superiors. If your superiors are unable to process no-fluff information, regardless of whether it's feedback or updates, they have no business lording over anyone and will sink whatever function they have oversight of. If you find yourself working under such people, don't bother giving feedback, start poli…

I think you’re ignoring the “without getting fired” part. The implication is that you’re in a situation where management is stubborn or even hostile to feedback.

Most organizations don’t practice “highly effective communication”. It’s often a nightmare riddled with politics and ego.

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#22

Post by tyrust »

lijok wrote: post #6

Astonishing. Completely backwards. This article describes how to give feedback to your subordinates, not to your superiors. If your superiors are unable to process no-fluff information, regardless of whether it's feedback or updates, they have no business lording over anyone and will sink whatever function they have oversight of. If you find yourself working under such people, don't bother giving feedback, start poli…

The advice isn't backwards, but some senior leaders are in the sense that they don't take feedback well. In this case, this advice is sound.

Sure, in an ideal world you wouldn't have to fluff it, but I'm guessing many of us aren't in that world.

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#23

Post by Rygian »

fny wrote: post #21
lijok wrote: post #6

Astonishing. Completely backwards. This article describes how to give feedback to your subordinates, not to your superiors. If your superiors are unable to process no-fluff information, regardless of whether it's feedback or updates, they have no business lording over anyone and will sink whatever function they have oversight of. If you find yourself working under such people, don't bother giving feedback, start poli…

I think you’re ignoring the “without getting fired” part. The implication is that you’re in a situation where management is stubborn or even hostile to feedback. Most organizations don’t practice “highly effective communication”. It’s often a nightmare riddled with politics and ego.

> I think you’re ignoring the “without getting fired” part.

The "start polishing your resume" bit was quite explicit.

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#24

Post by fcarraldo »

bradlys wrote: post #11
flog wrote: post #4

This was one of the most exhausting aspects of working for a US company, especially as an H1B. Simply: just don't say anything, it wasn't worth it. I'm from cultures where we bluntly call a spade a spade and pride ourselves on disdain for hierarchy. There's far less fear in raising concerns generally to anyone, but it's quite possibly because of the far better employment laws.

It's not just due to an employee being H1B. It's that 80% of your peers are Chinese and Indian H1Bs who bring that culture of deference to authority into the US. I don't even feel like I'm working in the US when I'm working for any tech company these days. If I'm at ads for FB, I may as well be in Beijing. Some others, I may as well be in Mumbai. It would be nice to work with Americans/westerners for once and actuall…

In my experience, Americans are much more likely to see criticism as a threat or an insult than in most European business cultures, where blunt feedback is common. I’ve seen many teams in different companies led by Americans where simply pointing out that a plan will fail in a public forum is tantamount to spitting in their face. It’s absurd, and it destroys teams.

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#25

Post by BiteCode_dev »

lisper wrote: post #2

Another tactic I like to use is a riff on the authors suggestion #3: “Is there a reason you did (or did not do) X?” This works because it’s framed as accepting the decision and being genuinely curious about the rationale. Often the answer is: no, I never really gave it any thought. Other times there turns out to be a good reason that didn’t occur to me and it turns into a learning experience for me. Another tactic th…

Depends on the profile, when somebody talks to me like that I immediately cringe in my head and lose all respect for the person.

Probably a matter of culture too.

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#26

Post by brunooliv »

I found strange to see so much criticism of the post as usually, anything that Wes Kao writes really resonates with me as a senior IC. Usually there’s a great balance of nuance and depth to the advice that makes it easy to digest and pick small bits and pieces to try out on my own context

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#27

Post by fny »

These are all rhetorical techniques to make your idea their idea. If you ever want to get anything done in painfully structured or faux-flat orgs, this is the way.

Why this psyop works:

1. People like to take credit for things.

2. People don't like to be wrong.

3. People get irked when a good idea wasn't their idea.

4. People don't like to feel threatened.

5. Just remove the duck.

The examples given are a little contrived, but the techniques applied are gold for more tricky scenarios.

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#29

Post by wjnc »

lijok wrote: post #6

Astonishing. Completely backwards. This article describes how to give feedback to your subordinates, not to your superiors. If your superiors are unable to process no-fluff information, regardless of whether it's feedback or updates, they have no business lording over anyone and will sink whatever function they have oversight of. If you find yourself working under such people, don't bother giving feedback, start poli…

This. I had to get a little used to not fluffing around my feedback. One of our managers just asked me to give it to him straight, directly and 1-on-1 and we’d get along fine. So we did. I still am having trouble with how little, what I see as fact based, feedback is needed before the average person has had enough.

Example: I like to point out shitty work processes (one needs a hobby). Anything with a few loops and some rework goes for me to start my first time right story. People take offense. No stop, you are not the process. You didn’t design it, you merely took part because we asked you to. Now stop and consider whether you think it is shitty and if so, what can we do? Can you do it? Do you need help? When? Organizationally, it’s a good riff. For me, it’s strange to do and see it help. It feels like delivering snake oil. (I rationalize this as delivering Lean in thirty minutes.)

My communication plan is facts >> options >> opinions >> advice. This way I help people mentally separate “what is” from whatever opinion I’m holding. This works for both verbal and written communication. It’s a coping strategy for being outlier direct.

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#30

Post by bargainbot3k »

fny wrote: post #27

These are all rhetorical techniques to make your idea their idea. If you ever want to get anything done in painfully structured or faux-flat orgs, this is the way. Why this psyop works: 1. People like to take credit for things. 2. People don't like to be wrong. 3. People get irked when a good idea wasn't their idea. 4. People don't like to feel threatened. 5. Just remove the duck. The examples given are a little cont…

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