Live data from Hacker News

Buddhist Retreat: Why I gave up on finding my religion (2003)

slate.com

21–30 of 79 posts

Re: Buddhist Retreat: Why I gave up on finding my religion (2003)

#21
My personal feeling is that when some sort of spiritual practice succeeds I almost forget why I did it in the first place because it was so low level and tightly bound to my experiencing of reality that it couldn't really be described (or remembered) in words.

And then if it succeeds in eliminating like a bad aura that envelops each moment of perception, you almost forget it ever existed and then one can throw the baby out with the bathwater, stop practicing altogether what brought one back up and then beyond to the level of pride where one can dismiss it all, only to three years later or so need to adopt a certain level of spiritual practice whether that's contemplative or practical or community-oriented.

As criticism it's completely valid on a personal plane and multiple times we can all see we've had to dismiss ideas as not fitting our lives anymore, but I also can't help but notice a certain negative tint to the entire article and leaps in logic in the criticism. This is obviously indicative that maybe the author had their fair fill of fruit and on a slightly filled stomach moves on to science etc. But it's not a debunk or a representation of the faith and practices beyond the personal journey of the author.

Re: Buddhist Retreat: Why I gave up on finding my religion (2003)

#22
post #6
post #3

This article gave me some great laughs. It's clear that the author only studied Buddhism for four years (a very short period of time) and has some very fundamental misunderstandings of Buddhist teachings. For example, this explanation of karma: > Together, these tenets imply the existence of some cosmic judge who, like Santa Claus, tallies up our naughtiness and niceness before rewarding us with rebirth as a cockroac…

> It's clear that the author only studied Buddhism for four years (a very short period of time) This kind of response always sounds like victim-blaming to me. If your system of is so complicated that someone can't even hope to get the basics right in four years of study, maybe the right thing to do is, in fact, to ditch it.

Pretty much any introductory guide to Buddhism from any of the major schools will explicitly say "karma is not a deterministic system of merit and demerit". I'm not sure how the author came to that understanding of karma, but it's radically at odds with what the vast majority of Buddhist traditions actually teach.

https://tricycle.org/magazine/thanissaro-bhikkhu-karma/

Re: Buddhist Retreat: Why I gave up on finding my religion (2003)

#24
The author is projecting his Catholic upbringing on the religion. Buddhism is not a singular hierarchical institution in the way Catholicism is. It has evolved and changed as it migrated from India through Tibet, China, Japan, then the USA. Does it have people that take bad actions - yes. Every human institution does.

Re: Buddhist Retreat: Why I gave up on finding my religion (2003)

#25
post #8

There are many flavors of buddhism. I am partial towards the Thai Forest tradition because it emphasizes practice and experience over dogma and so avoids metaphysical discussions. > But what troubles me most about Buddhism is its implication that detachment from ordinary life is the surest route to salvation. The response from the Thai Forest would be to engage in your life skillfully while paying attention to what c…

How is that different from stoicism ? Asking genuinely.

There are some theories that as ideas flowed along the silk road, that Buddhism influenced Stoicism.

There is a lot of crossover of ideas.

And of course, both have been re-interpreted a lot in the modern age. Lot of intermixing continues today.

Re: Buddhist Retreat: Why I gave up on finding my religion (2003)

#26

.

I’m not making any comment about Buddhism, but the fact that something is ‘2,500 years old’ doesn’t seem to have much bearing on its validity. There’s plenty of misguided rubbish that’s been knocking around for millennia — I would imagine Buddhism has other selling points.

The selling point for the kind of people who read HN is probably this - the similarities between what Buddhism has been teaching for 2,500 years and the state of the art in evidence-based psychotherapies are uncanny. Long before the likes of Jon Kabat-Zinn were explicitly making the connection, Beck, Adler, Low and Ellis independently rediscovered an awful lot of Buddhist principles, with only a little help from the Stoics. It's one of those weird apparent anachronisms like the Antikythera mechanism.

Re: Buddhist Retreat: Why I gave up on finding my religion (2003)

#27
Panaceas do not exist. Also, some people are pretty terrible everywhere and in all religions such as that Chögyam Trungpa in his community.

We all pursue our quest to understand the universe and to better ourselves. To me, this is what matters, and, fortunately, this is something often shared between religions.

Re: Buddhist Retreat: Why I gave up on finding my religion (2003)

#28
"Meditation can even exacerbate depression, anxiety, and other negative emotions in certain people."

If the author had put enough serious time in meditation, he would notice that meditation doesn't exacerbate negative emotions, it just makes you aware of the negative emotions that were already there and that you were ignoring by social media, alcohol, drugs, tiktok, etc. Meditation makes you aware of where the problem is and why the negative emotions come up. Think of it like a very good debugger. It's no substitution for solving the problem. It gives you the tools to solve the problem. Imagine your boss gave you a buggy code but seemingly it seems to compile and work but he keeps saying the code has errors, it's not supposed to work that way. You will go nuts if you don't know where the problem is. You don't even need the solution, just knowing the problem is enough to save you a lot of trouble. Meditation on the initial stages works that way. Later, you'll figure out as you go. Buddha said just do it, don't analyze l, just do it. The author here didn't have the patience to just do it and see it for himself, instead he focussed on the philosophy too much.

Meditating on a cushion for hours everyday is no substitution for being kind to strangers. Meditation brings you clarity even if the clarity is something you don't like. Hell, even Buddha was enlightened when he actually left meditation and gave up meditation altogether (which the author seems to have completely miss it here). Buddhism may not be perfect(what's perfect anyway?) but as George Box put it "All models are wrong, some are useful" Buddhism tries the best to be the most right and the useful model of the world.

Re: Buddhist Retreat: Why I gave up on finding my religion (2003)

#29
> Yes, (meditation) can reduce stress, but, as it turns out, no more so than simply sitting still does

That's no surprise. If your type of meditation is just sitting still, that's fine. You don't need a guru voiceover to get the benefits

Is this a surprise? It's not magic. You're essentially giving your brain and mind the space and time it needs. That doesn't make it any less helpful with regards to stress, anxiety, focus etc

If we start realising all it is is sitting still (as in no music, podcast, iPad), maybe meditation can become more popular and we can get our attention spans back.

Re: Buddhist Retreat: Why I gave up on finding my religion (2003)

#30
Anything can be done terribly wrong and misused while formally correct if approached without reason and measure.

Instead of judging Buddhism, just practicing the simplest form of it by just meditating daily and consciously trying to be mindful and kind throughout every day usually does a great job. The same can be considered a simple form of Christianity as well though.

Post reply on HN