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Why did people rub snow on frozen feet? (2017)

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Re: Why did people rub snow on frozen feet? (2017)

#21

Post by mistrial9 »

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #20
bongodongobob wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah it's extremely painful. I jumped into a frozen lake years ago and ran to a shower afterwards. Turned on the water, just slightly warm and it felt like my fingers and toes got smashed by a hammer.

A friend was a Vietnamese POW. The first torture done was to tourniquet his upper arms until they colored to black and then loose the bindings (repeatedly). Returning circulation is much more brutal than it might sound.

ok that is terrible, but note that gently slowing circulation to arms or legs and then returning circulation is a simple theraputic action that has been used for millennia

Re: Why did people rub snow on frozen feet? (2017)

#23

Post by Etheryte »

cyberax wrote: post #17

One thing to keep in mind, is that if somebody is hypothermic and not just frostbitten, then rapid re-warming is a bad idea. Body protects itself by shutting down blood flow to skin and extremities, keeping the core warm. So if the extremities are rapidly re-warmed, then blood vessels in them dilate. And then blood starts flowing through oxygen-depleted tissues that are cold and full of accumulated metabolic waste. N…

This is interesting, I was taught that instead of the metabolic waste, the issue was the cold blood from extremities quickly cooling down the internals once allowed to circulate freely. Do you have any references for this?

Re: Why did people rub snow on frozen feet? (2017)

#24

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

robbiep wrote: post #10
DiscourseFan wrote: post #2

Yeah but clearly people wouldn’tve been doing it if it hadn’t worked, so what is the reason for trying that specific traditional method?

Without being overly condescending, you do realise that most of the things that have been done throughout history, along with many we still do, are the result of cultural practice and have no evidence base whatsoever? Whilst 1956 seems to be a fairly late date to stop what would seem in the surface to be a counter intuitive practice, 80 years earlier blood letting was still in vogue

Butter on burns was passed down to my mom. I let that one die off with her generation.

Re: Why did people rub snow on frozen feet? (2017)

#25

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

hiatus wrote: post #9
DiscourseFan wrote: post #2

Yeah but clearly people wouldn’tve been doing it if it hadn’t worked, so what is the reason for trying that specific traditional method?

> Yeah but clearly people wouldn’tve been doing it if it hadn’t worked Like bloodletting, leeches, lobotomies...

Oddly, electroconvulsive therapy seemes to have panned out.

Re: Why did people rub snow on frozen feet? (2017)

#26

Post by dotancohen »

Etheryte wrote: post #23
cyberax wrote: post #17

One thing to keep in mind, is that if somebody is hypothermic and not just frostbitten, then rapid re-warming is a bad idea. Body protects itself by shutting down blood flow to skin and extremities, keeping the core warm. So if the extremities are rapidly re-warmed, then blood vessels in them dilate. And then blood starts flowing through oxygen-depleted tissues that are cold and full of accumulated metabolic waste. N…

This is interesting, I was taught that instead of the metabolic waste, the issue was the cold blood from extremities quickly cooling down the internals once allowed to circulate freely. Do you have any references for this?

What it's worth, we were taught the same thing about people crushed under e.g. rubble in combat medic training 20 years ago. And the same consideration applies to removing a tourniquet that had been in place for over two hours as well.

Re: Why did people rub snow on frozen feet? (2017)

#27

Post by crazygringo »

schiffern wrote: post #18

Perhaps it got started with people misunderstanding / misremembering drying off by rubbing snow on wet skin. Being wet in cold conditions can be a death sentence so you need to dry off quickly, and this is one of the recommended methods. https://www.ncexped.com/drying-off-snow/

Oh wow, that's counterintuitive until you remember that snow basically works like a sponge. So as long as it starts out cold enough and you're quick enough, the snow can soak up water before it melts and gets you wet all over again.

Re: Why did people rub snow on frozen feet? (2017)

#28

Post by crazygringo »

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #24
robbiep wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without being overly condescending, you do realise that most of the things that have been done throughout history, along with many we still do, are the result of cultural practice and have no evidence base whatsoever? Whilst 1956 seems to be a fairly late date to stop what would seem in the surface to be a counter intuitive practice, 80 years earlier blood letting was still in vogue

Butter on burns was passed down to my mom. I let that one die off with her generation.

I dunno, I can see logic to that.

Today we apply petroleum jelly (Vaseline, Neosporin, etc.) over skin to help it heal, but butter is basically going to do the same thing of keeping in moisture.

Re: Why did people rub snow on frozen feet? (2017)

#29

Post by DidYaWipe »

incognito124 wrote: post #8

I've experienced rapid warming of hands when handling snow without gloves. Maybe it's the same mechanism?

After handling snow I've noticed this too. My hands are often cold by default, but if I handle snow it's as if the coldness crosses some threshold and your body says, OK, that's over the line! We're sending help!

Re: Why did people rub snow on frozen feet? (2017)

#30

Post by cyberax »

Etheryte wrote: post #23
cyberax wrote: post #17

One thing to keep in mind, is that if somebody is hypothermic and not just frostbitten, then rapid re-warming is a bad idea. Body protects itself by shutting down blood flow to skin and extremities, keeping the core warm. So if the extremities are rapidly re-warmed, then blood vessels in them dilate. And then blood starts flowing through oxygen-depleted tissues that are cold and full of accumulated metabolic waste. N…

This is interesting, I was taught that instead of the metabolic waste, the issue was the cold blood from extremities quickly cooling down the internals once allowed to circulate freely. Do you have any references for this?

That was a part of my training for snow rescues. It's probably a combination of both.
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