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A Dust Over India

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Re: A Dust Over India

#21

Post by memset »

JonnieCache wrote: post #9
suprgeek wrote: post #7

This is a fairly honest unflinching piece. A visit to India can induce severe "Cognitive Dissonance" in the unprepared. There is obscene display of super affluence right next to shocking Poverty. I see this every single day - A beggar & her naked child begging at the window of an Audi R8. The salesman in a high-end TV shop taking the bus to work. The Marriot main-gate where super high priced cars drive out to be gree…

>The salesman in a high-end TV shop taking the bus to work. This one kinda sticks out of the list. That would happen in many metropolitan centers worldwide, its simply more convenient.

This is basically what it is like commuting by bus in India: http://www.preetindersodhi.com/pictures/the-indian-bus/

Imagine being crammed in during a 100-degree+ summer just to get to and from work every day. Oof.

I live in NYC; we have a very tame definition of "taking the bus" as compared to India.

Re: A Dust Over India

#22

Post by awakeasleep »

csomar wrote: post #16
Arun2009 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The leaders and the bureaucrats of the Govt. of India deserve to be shot in a public square for their sheer corruption and incompetence. The Indian public deserves an equal or greater share of the blame. Government is the people's responsibility in a democracy. If governance sucks, the citizens are not doing their job.

You are living in a developed country, right? You got many years of language, writing, speaking, thinking and maybe higher education. You don't know what illiteracy means (when you can't read/write; and don't understand anything about democracy or the banking system). Your average person in a developing and poor country is not Arun2009. It's a fairly ignorant person who doesn't know either his rights or his duties.

Yesterday an article made it to our frontage about what 'bubbles' we live in. By bubbles the author meant assumptions that shape how we see and interpret everything.

I think literacy & education is one of the biggest bubbles. I had to spend a lot of time thinking about it, and talking to people with experience in the subject before the vast idea of what it means to be illiterate started to dawn on me.

For example, teaching a class on how to use computers to people at the library. They all want to know how to 'look for a job' online. Show 'em how to use the mouse, what icons represent the internet, how to get email, and see they're having trouble. Slowly begin to understand they're only memorizing shapes and patterns of letters, and don't really know how to read or write.

We're all so hyper literate, I can say that about everyone here. We're practically a different species than people who don't know how to wirelessly communicate through space and time. It's impossible to hold poor people in india who basically only have spoken word communication, and oral tradition historical context, to our standards.

Re: A Dust Over India

#23

Post by JonnieCache »

memset wrote: post #21
JonnieCache wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The salesman in a high-end TV shop taking the bus to work. This one kinda sticks out of the list. That would happen in many metropolitan centers worldwide, its simply more convenient.

This is basically what it is like commuting by bus in India: http://www.preetindersodhi.com/pictures/the-indian-bus/ Imagine being crammed in during a 100-degree+ summer just to get to and from work every day. Oof. I live in NYC; we have a very tame definition of "taking the bus" as compared to India.

Guess I was thinking more from a standpoint of the social status of taking public transport versus having your own car. But you're right, those considerations are irrelevant next to the aforementioned heat and overcrowding.

Re: A Dust Over India

#24

Post by grandalf »

Arun2009 wrote: post #12
suprgeek wrote: post #7

This is a fairly honest unflinching piece. A visit to India can induce severe "Cognitive Dissonance" in the unprepared. There is obscene display of super affluence right next to shocking Poverty. I see this every single day - A beggar & her naked child begging at the window of an Audi R8. The salesman in a high-end TV shop taking the bus to work. The Marriot main-gate where super high priced cars drive out to be gree…

> The leaders and the bureaucrats of the Govt. of India deserve to be shot in a public square for their sheer corruption and incompetence. The Indian public deserves an equal or greater share of the blame. Government is the people's responsibility in a democracy. If governance sucks, the citizens are not doing their job.

Do you seriously think that the average Indian citizen is less politically empowered than the average American citizen?

Re: A Dust Over India

#25

Post by ashwinm »

Arun2009 wrote: post #20
ashwinm wrote: post #18

You haven't seen india fully,not even 10%. You cant blindly say the whole india is a shit hole. come to south india.It will be much better.

> It will be much better. I'm from Kerala - things may be slightly better here than say Bihar but not by a whole lot.

yes,me too from kerala. they will feel opposite if someone read this and visit here.

Re: A Dust Over India

#26

Post by abhisec »

This is a well written article. I am an Indian based in US and biased but the fact is India is a young democracy. It has only been 20 years since economy was liberalized and middle class got jobs. The middle class grew and is at a point where we will see meaningful difference in social life.

Once the tummy is full and people see that their basic necessity food is met, they start thinking about other things, like cleanliness, civil society and other comforts which they should have. India is a powerhouse of energy, we have entrepreneurs in every nook and corner and people have learnt how to survive and excel. We educate our kids and that is the biggest power a country can have, education eradicates all ills.

If you look at states like Gujarat in India you will be surprised to find them cleaner and better maintained than any western city. Their are women who run dairy businesses which bring millions in revenue in Gujarat.

What defeats India is its political class and miracles can be head if you have a government which can act. It will happen soon and the young entrepreneurs and startups in India will change the country. I love India.

Re: A Dust Over India

#27

Post by baseh »

photon137 wrote: post #14

The mistake the author made is that he lived in India for three weeks. Had he stayed for six months or a year, he'd have been able to figure out what makes India tick - India is the very embodiment of clever innovation to survive - it will ask you very tough questions and it will compel you to innovate, often rapidly, just in order to survive - not even succeed. This, in India, is known as "jugaad". He missed the "ju…

Great comment. You have hit the nail on the head. One has to immerse oneself into the ocean of sweat, dirt and garbage to see the real india and what makes it tick. It is like swimming in an ocean of raw-sewage with a 1000 foot, 1000-headed serpent.

>> The most unfortunate in India are amongst the most fatalistic - they give up trying. : This is again so true. Experienced first-hand with some of my relatives. You might be initially surprised at their mindset and the self-reasoning, but then you will realize its part of their coming to terms with life.

If you consider the rain-forests of Amazon as an evolving experiment by nature, I consider the human-forests of India as an evolving experiment by nature as well.

Re: A Dust Over India

#29

Post by free »

memset wrote: post #21
JonnieCache wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The salesman in a high-end TV shop taking the bus to work. This one kinda sticks out of the list. That would happen in many metropolitan centers worldwide, its simply more convenient.

This is basically what it is like commuting by bus in India: http://www.preetindersodhi.com/pictures/the-indian-bus/ Imagine being crammed in during a 100-degree+ summer just to get to and from work every day. Oof. I live in NYC; we have a very tame definition of "taking the bus" as compared to India.

Come on, that picture is more exception than the norm. I travelled by bus for years when I was in school and college. There are definitely people hanging near the doors but nowhere as close as to what you mentioned in the picture.

Re: A Dust Over India

#30

Post by suprgeek »

grandalf wrote: post #24
Arun2009 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The leaders and the bureaucrats of the Govt. of India deserve to be shot in a public square for their sheer corruption and incompetence. The Indian public deserves an equal or greater share of the blame. Government is the people's responsibility in a democracy. If governance sucks, the citizens are not doing their job.

Do you seriously think that the average Indian citizen is less politically empowered than the average American citizen?

The average Indian is likely making less than $2 a day [1] and likely illiterate with not having the ability to read or write ANYTHING[2]. Is a dirt poor, illiterate person "politically empowered"?

[1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_India [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_in_India (the numbers here are severely underrepresented - there is consensus among most NGOs that more than 50% illiteracy prevails)

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