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Canada’s vanishing tech sector

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21–30 of 121 posts

Re: Canada’s vanishing tech sector

#21
post #7
post #3

The problem extends beyond financing. As even the article says, successful companies like Shopify are able to raise $$$ from the US. It's also a scale problem. Canada has has, by my count, four micro tech scenes (Waterloo, Vancouver, Toronto, Ottawa). In a Country with such a small population, there really still isn't a "hub" for tech. With talent so dispersed (and much of it moving to the US as it is), it's hard to…

the NAFTA really does a number on us (Canada) here in making it so easy to work in the States on TN status. I went to university a few years ago with a small group of 3 other pretty bright programmer friends. It turns out it's hard to find an excellent job in Canada. Though I'm now working for Shopify, which appears to be the only really great option for me here, the other three of them have recently moved to New Yor…

For me, it's the other way 'round. I'm an American (barely; I'm from Maine and talk like a Canadian) who'd love to move to Ottawa or Toronto, but there's not a hell of a lot up there.

Re: Canada’s vanishing tech sector

#22
I am an Australian/British dual-citizen (born in Australia but lived and worked some ~3 years in London and ~1 year in Zurich) who now works in New York. I've had discussions with various people (mainly other engineers) on the topic of how one would go about starting a startup.

These discussions--largely theoretical--have centered around three problems:

1. Where?

2. The route to funding/profitability; and

3. Visa/residency issues.

(3) of course depends on (1) and the nationalities and residencies of the respective founders. As a UK citizen I luckily have the right to reside anywhere in the EU. For the US unfortunately I need a visa but Australians have access to the E3 visa, which has a lower bar to issuance than even the H1B (there is no need for the employer to "prove" they can't find someone local, which is essentially a legal circus) but there are issues in using work visas to found companies.

There are I believe many foreign engineers in the US in the same boat as me.

I've looked into the possibility of either situating in Canada or at least using it as a stepping stone. It could have a lot going for it, for example:

- Vancouver is relatively speaking close to Seattle and the Bay area;

- No health insurance problems (comparatively);

- Relatively low cost (compared to, say, San Francisco);

- English-speaking;

- Cultural similarities.

And here's where Canada really has an opportunity to attract fledgling companies: software patents. If Canada were to invalidate software patents then they'd essentially be providing a safe haven for small companies until they're large enough to defend themselves. Of course, trolls can still go after US operations (if, say, you hosted in the US) but you would be at least partially protected.

Sadly, the Canadian government seems to be just an inept when it comes to IP issues as other Western governments (and, worse, it seems to take its lead from the US).

But if you go look at the Canadian immigration sites you find out that:

- getting residency is relatively difficult; and

- engineers aren't even on the list of high-demand occupations (whereas restaurant managers are, for example).

Now Canadians could be concerned that if such a program existed people would use it until they could get to the US and I suspect that would happen a lot but I think that's fine because a certain percentage would stay. Some would employ Canadians, at least for a time. Some of those would go when the startup move. Some wouldn't.

That's how ecosystems form. It's not an exercise in being better than say Silicon Valley. Like so much else in life, it's simply an exercise in persistence and ultimately a numbers game.

Beyond those options I'm not sure where next someone in my shoes might otherwise go. London and Germany (I lived in Cologne for a time and loved it) are obvious choices.

In a bootstrapping scenario or even at a seed-funding level it would be ideal to keep costs low. Costs in the Bay Area for talent and even housing, etc are bordering nightmarish and I say this as someone who lives in Manhattan. Finding and retaining talent in SF/SV must be torture for new companies.

Personally I prefer New York but hey YMMV.

Anyway, back to Canada, it seems to have the same problem Australia does in a way: it's too focused in ripping stuff out of the ground and selling it than it is on tech. Oh well, their loss.

Re: Canada’s vanishing tech sector

#23
post #10

It's amazing how most of these articles just talk about the difficulties of raising money. As if that's the only important thing missing in Canada for startups. What about the difficulty of finding out what users want (when your customers are all in the US), the lack of a concentrated talent pool of people in your sector (hard to network let alone hire), lack of sector-specific mentors. All much harder to do in Canad…

> What about the difficulty of finding out what users want (when your customers are all in the US)

This seems like a false premise. I would guess people who live in the valley are just as disconnected from the rest of the states as people who live in Canada. Perhaps more so.

Re: Canada’s vanishing tech sector

#24

This is fairly true of pretty much every country except the US. Finland had Nokia, now in decline. Germany still has SAP but that's it. The UK has nothing large left, all sold abroad (last one was Autonomy). Most countries have never had a big tech company at all.

You forgot another continent, Asia.

Well there is Samsung, a few companies in China. The Indian companies are mostly services, not tech. So similar.

Re: Canada’s vanishing tech sector

#25
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. Big companies like Microsoft and Google tend to snatch a good portion of highly skilled engineers, while most designers (product and visual) tend to head towards New York City or San Francisco for better growth and money.

True, when I graduated Waterloo CS in 2007, I remember a sizable portion of the coop board postings were from Google, MS, and RIM, about 20-40 postings each most terms. The pay in Silicon Valley was maybe 25-50% higher than Toronto/Montreal/Waterloo and the weather didn't suck. It would be interesting to see a breakdown from Waterloo of how many postings are in the US vs Canada and how large the companies are. Sort o…

> "The pay in Silicon Valley was maybe 25-50% higher than Toronto/Montreal/Waterloo and the weather didn't suck."

I live in SF currently, and recently accepted another job in NYC. Apples to apples, the pay in SF/SV is easily 100% higher than Toronto right now.

The gap is even higher in NYC (150%+), though of course, cost of living is going to eat up most of that. With the bubble heating up even more right now, I know people who are picking up comp packages 200%+ higher than the going rate in Canada.

There is simply no reason to go back - critical mass of talented, dedicated people. Interesting work. Ludicrous sums of money.

Re: Canada’s vanishing tech sector

#26
post #22

I am an Australian/British dual-citizen (born in Australia but lived and worked some ~3 years in London and ~1 year in Zurich) who now works in New York. I've had discussions with various people (mainly other engineers) on the topic of how one would go about starting a startup. These discussions--largely theoretical--have centered around three problems: 1. Where? 2. The route to funding/profitability; and 3. Visa/res…

[deleted]

Re: Canada’s vanishing tech sector

#27
post #22

I am an Australian/British dual-citizen (born in Australia but lived and worked some ~3 years in London and ~1 year in Zurich) who now works in New York. I've had discussions with various people (mainly other engineers) on the topic of how one would go about starting a startup. These discussions--largely theoretical--have centered around three problems: 1. Where? 2. The route to funding/profitability; and 3. Visa/res…

engineers aren't even on the list of high-demand occupations

Probably because there is no demand. My local municipal government was recently looking for someone to maintain their website, which is little more than a simple blog. The job description essentially laid out the job as your basic, run of the mill CRUD application. The kind of stuff kids in high school do for fun.

When you read down to the requirements section though, they were asking for a CS degree and a bunch of other stuff you would normally expect to find from a $200K/year job at Google, not a mediocre pay, small government job. The fact that they can actually ask for such ridiculous requirements and fill the position speaks to there being far more supply than demand, at least from my point of view.

Re: Canada’s vanishing tech sector

#28

This is fairly true of pretty much every country except the US. Finland had Nokia, now in decline. Germany still has SAP but that's it. The UK has nothing large left, all sold abroad (last one was Autonomy). Most countries have never had a big tech company at all.

What about Chile's startup scene?

Re: Canada’s vanishing tech sector

#29
post #22

I am an Australian/British dual-citizen (born in Australia but lived and worked some ~3 years in London and ~1 year in Zurich) who now works in New York. I've had discussions with various people (mainly other engineers) on the topic of how one would go about starting a startup. These discussions--largely theoretical--have centered around three problems: 1. Where? 2. The route to funding/profitability; and 3. Visa/res…

I'm surprised you think New York or Vancouver are lower cost than SV. Externalities (housing, cost of living, etc.) are the same or higher than the other places. Talent may be more expensive but that's because that's (by and large) where the talent actually is.

Re: Canada’s vanishing tech sector

#30
post #19

As one of those "early tech exit" Canadian entrepreneurs, this article really hits home for me. When I first started out I talked to several successful entrepreneurs who were living in Vancouver at the time and got some rather interesting advice. Paraphrasing: Move to the valley. There are too many reasons to be there. Don't be a patriot - and don't be a martyr. Lack of critical mass in any of these "tech hubs", over…

Why skip over Seattle, which is much closer to Vancouver than the bay, and has a pretty thriving tech scene (both startups and big players like Amazon, Facebook, Google, and Microsoft)?
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