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A neurology ICU nurse on AI in hospitals

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Re: A neurology ICU nurse on AI in hospitals

#21

Post by maxehmookau »

anthonyskipper wrote: post #15
coliveira wrote: post #10

Everyone should be terrified. The "promise" of AI is the following: remove any kind of remaining communication between humans, because that is "inefficient", and replace it with an AI that will mediate all human interactions (in business and even in other areas). In a few years, AIs trained by big corps will run the show and humans will be required to interface with them to do anything of value. Similar to what they…

Some of us look forward to that future where you mostly just interact with AI. The one depressing us is not turning running over our goverment to AI. The sooner we can do that the better, you can't trust humans.

> Some of us look forward to that future where you mostly just interact with AI.

What is it about that that appeals to you? I'm genuinely curious.

A world without human interaction feels like a world I don't want to exist in.

Re: A neurology ICU nurse on AI in hospitals

#22

Post by Spivak »

thefz wrote: post #12
Loughla wrote: post #5

Healthcare is a massive cost for people, businesses, and governments. >So we basically just become operators of the machines. Driving down the cost of manufacturing because of process standardization and automation brought down the cost of consumer goods, and labor's value. If you don't think this is coming for every single area of business, you're foolish. Driving down labor costs is the golden goose. We've been abl…

> Driving down the cost of manufacturing because of process standardization and automation brought down the cost of consumer goods, and labor's value. And quality as well.

Not really, the quality we're able to produce at scale is the best it's ever been in the world. The "quality of everything has been in decline" isn't due to advances in manufacturing but the economic factors that are present even without those advances.

Rapid inflation over a relatively short period of time has forced everyone to desperately try and maintain close to their pre-inflation prices because workers didn't and aren't going to get the corresponding wage increases.

I hope eventually there's a tipping point where the powers that be realize that our economy can't work unless the wealth that naturally accumulates at the top gets fed back into the bottom but the US pretty unanimously voted for the exact opposite so I desperately I hope I'm wrong or that this path can work too.

Re: A neurology ICU nurse on AI in hospitals

#23

Post by daemin »

fhfjfk wrote: post #14
bryanlarsen wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If it sucks and hallucinates information it's not going to go live anywhere. It hallucinates and it's live in many places. My doctor uses it. AFAICT the hallucination rate is fairly low. It's transcription and summarization which has a lower hallucination rate than when it's asked for an answer. It's massively better than the alternative. Taking the time to write down proper notes is the difference between 4 patien…

What about increasing the supply of doctors rather than decreasing the time they spend with patients? I question the underlying premise that efficiency needs to increase.

Because the USA is for-profit healthcare industry they need to optimise and increase efficiency. That's the only way to make the numbers go up. Therefore fewer doctors, fewer nurses, fewer administrators (maybe), and more paying patients.

Re: A neurology ICU nurse on AI in hospitals

#24

Post by vladms »

fhfjfk wrote: post #14
bryanlarsen wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If it sucks and hallucinates information it's not going to go live anywhere. It hallucinates and it's live in many places. My doctor uses it. AFAICT the hallucination rate is fairly low. It's transcription and summarization which has a lower hallucination rate than when it's asked for an answer. It's massively better than the alternative. Taking the time to write down proper notes is the difference between 4 patien…

What about increasing the supply of doctors rather than decreasing the time they spend with patients? I question the underlying premise that efficiency needs to increase.

In the case of summarizing it is not time spent with patient is time recording what was discussed.

I recently heard a talk from doctolib (French company that among other offers now the summarization service to doctors) and they mentioned that before AI, doctors were writing on average 144 characters after a patient visit. I doubt half a tweet is the ideal text to convey information.

Re: A neurology ICU nurse on AI in hospitals

#26

Post by itishappy »

anthonyskipper wrote: post #15
coliveira wrote: post #10

Everyone should be terrified. The "promise" of AI is the following: remove any kind of remaining communication between humans, because that is "inefficient", and replace it with an AI that will mediate all human interactions (in business and even in other areas). In a few years, AIs trained by big corps will run the show and humans will be required to interface with them to do anything of value. Similar to what they…

Some of us look forward to that future where you mostly just interact with AI. The one depressing us is not turning running over our goverment to AI. The sooner we can do that the better, you can't trust humans.

Can we trust AI?

Re: A neurology ICU nurse on AI in hospitals

#27

Post by 1986 »

anthonyskipper wrote: post #15
coliveira wrote: post #10

Everyone should be terrified. The "promise" of AI is the following: remove any kind of remaining communication between humans, because that is "inefficient", and replace it with an AI that will mediate all human interactions (in business and even in other areas). In a few years, AIs trained by big corps will run the show and humans will be required to interface with them to do anything of value. Similar to what they…

Some of us look forward to that future where you mostly just interact with AI. The one depressing us is not turning running over our goverment to AI. The sooner we can do that the better, you can't trust humans.

"You can't trust humans" but you can trust a non deterministic black box to take their place?

Re: A neurology ICU nurse on AI in hospitals

#28

Post by cptaj »

maxehmookau wrote: post #21
anthonyskipper wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of us look forward to that future where you mostly just interact with AI. The one depressing us is not turning running over our goverment to AI. The sooner we can do that the better, you can't trust humans.

> Some of us look forward to that future where you mostly just interact with AI. What is it about that that appeals to you? I'm genuinely curious. A world without human interaction feels like a world I don't want to exist in.

They expect AI bureaucracy to be more effective than human bureaucracy.

I expect this to be entirely true in some cases.

Re: A neurology ICU nurse on AI in hospitals

#29

Post by A_D_E_P_T »

coliveira wrote: post #10

Everyone should be terrified. The "promise" of AI is the following: remove any kind of remaining communication between humans, because that is "inefficient", and replace it with an AI that will mediate all human interactions (in business and even in other areas). In a few years, AIs trained by big corps will run the show and humans will be required to interface with them to do anything of value. Similar to what they…

Counterpoint: AI is actually better at communication than most humans. In fact, even an ancient (in relative terms) article found that AI bots have better bedside manner than human doctors:

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/apr/28/ai-has-be...

Today, I expect it's not even very close.

I also believe that AI diagnostics are on average more accurate than the mean human doctor's diagnostic efforts -- and can be, in principle, orders of magnitude faster/better/cheaper.

As of right now, there's even less gatekeeping with AIs than there is with humans. You'll jump through a lot of hoops and pay a lot of money for an opportunity to tell a doctor of your symptoms; you can do the same thing with GPT-4o and get a reasonable response in no time at all -- at and no cost.

I'd much prefer, and I would be much better served, by a capable AI "medical assistant" and open access to scans, diagnostics, and pharmaceuticals [1] over the current paradigm in the USA.

[1] - Here in Croatia, I can buy whatever drugs I want, with only very narrow exceptions, OTC. There's really no "prescription" system. I can also order blood tests and scans for myself.

Re: A neurology ICU nurse on AI in hospitals

#30

Post by andy_ppp »

maxehmookau wrote: post #21
anthonyskipper wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of us look forward to that future where you mostly just interact with AI. The one depressing us is not turning running over our goverment to AI. The sooner we can do that the better, you can't trust humans.

> Some of us look forward to that future where you mostly just interact with AI. What is it about that that appeals to you? I'm genuinely curious. A world without human interaction feels like a world I don't want to exist in.

If you are autistic (for example) I'm guessing human interaction can be extremely difficult and very stressful and triggering. Machines are much more amenable and don't have loads of arbitrary unwritten rules the way humans do. Maybe the idea of being entrapped by bureaucracy introduced by machines will be better than the the bureaucracy introduced by humans?
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