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Pagination widows, or, why I'm embarrassed about my eBook (2023)

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Re: Pagination widows, or, why I'm embarrassed about my eBook (2023)

#21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not pragmatism: that's poor judgement. That's a hack that shouldn't work at all; and if it does, it must¹ cause other problems, such as preventing breaks inside the entire first paragraph, or breaking graphically rather than linewise (that is, you could get the top half of one line on one page, and the rest on the next). — ¹ As in, it's unavoidable if you've implemented layout in such a way.

What's the name of this site again?

VC-Influenced-News just doesn't have the same ring to it.

Re: Pagination widows, or, why I'm embarrassed about my eBook (2023)

#22
post #5

If you think it's bad that `break-*` isn't supported in Firefox or Chrome, wait till you see what your ebook looks like in Kindle, or worse, ADE-based readers, of which there are still many in use! Kindle, the reading device with by far the largest market share, is basically the IE6 of ereaders - too big to ignore, and at the same time dragging down the entire ebook ecosystem with its crappy renderer. Amazon has show…

Is there a caniuse for ebook readers?

You could write one pretty easily:

  
    
      Can I Use ...?
    
    
      No.
    
  

Re: Pagination widows, or, why I'm embarrassed about my eBook (2023)

#23
post #18
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if it would fix splitting across pages, but that sounds like negative margins. They've been in CSS forever. The basic idea: .heading { margin-bottom: 30px; } .paragraph { margin-top: -30px; } Also: > the heading could instead claim it needs three lines, which would ensure it would never be orphaned It wouldn't prevent being orphaned at this point in your idea. What if there was room for 3 lines at the en…

I'm not sure the proposed approach would work, in particular on ebook readers. But if if does, I believe margins may not be the right way to do it. Padding might be however, because it is actually inside the box (while margins of elements may be "blended" inside the margins of their parents). h2 { padding-bottom: 3em; } h2 + p { margin-top: -3em; } The problem is CSS doesn't support the lh unit yet so what's 3em here…

>The problem is CSS doesn't support the lh unit yet so

the problem is that ebooks css does not support what you expect a slightly out of date browser to support, and almost each ebook renderer has its own problems.

Think html email sized problems.

Re: Pagination widows, or, why I'm embarrassed about my eBook (2023)

#24
post #5

If you think it's bad that `break-*` isn't supported in Firefox or Chrome, wait till you see what your ebook looks like in Kindle, or worse, ADE-based readers, of which there are still many in use! Kindle, the reading device with by far the largest market share, is basically the IE6 of ereaders - too big to ignore, and at the same time dragging down the entire ebook ecosystem with its crappy renderer. Amazon has show…

The most frustrating thing is that in some areas ADE (also known as RMSDK) still has some of the best typography amongst ebook rendering engines.

Kerning? Yes. Ligatures? Of course. (Adjustable) hyphenation? Absolutely. Line breaking that's more complex than the first-fit that web browsers use? Well, yes, I think they may have borrowed it from InDesign.

And then it's let down by it's awful CSS support. No `font-variant: small-caps` for you. And your CSS had better be valid, or it will be completely ignored - that includes `!important` by the way.

Adobe essentially abandoned the RMSDK renderer, which is a real shame, because with better CSS support, it would still kick-ass.

As an aside on Kobo ereaders, they use RMSDK to open standard EPUB ebooks. Only their "Kobo EPUB" format is rendered using a webkit based engine.

Re: Pagination widows, or, why I'm embarrassed about my eBook (2023)

#25
If I was designing an ebook reader, the display would look like a book's display. None of the ereaders I know of do this.

1. Have a background image that looks like paper. No, a solid white or tan background doesn't look like paper. Paper has imperfections in it, dirt, a grain, and you can faintly see the other side of the page. Except for the latter, this is easy to achieve. Simply scan a bunch of blank pages, and use the scan for backgrounds!

2. No, having a background with a fake coffee stain ring doesn't work, because it's the same on every page. You need a few dozen pages, each with a different stain.

3. A printed page is imperfect. The letters can be uneven and blotchy. No, don't have a blotchy font. Have maybe 20 slightly different versions of the same font, and randomly select a glyph from one of them.

4. Books open to two pages. Not one. Two. The ereader should show two pages side by side, like a book.

5. Book fonts tend to look better than ereader fonts, though I cannot explain why.

But most of all, the sterile perfection of the ereader is like a drummer who is too perfect. Introduce error in it, it makes the music easier on the ears, and the books more pleasant to read.

Re: Pagination widows, or, why I'm embarrassed about my eBook (2023)

#26
post #20

Not to mention the ugly/unusable rendering of mathematical formulate in ebooks on my Kindle, which is gatherig dust. Layouting is an art and a craft, and the fact that it's automated by people who lack the specialized knowledge, or for whom it is not a priority (quarter century old bug reports, really?) suggests that in 2025, you should still avoid ebooks if you care about quality and aesthetics. This is a shame beca…

You could include the formulae as jpg's, not html.

Re: Pagination widows, or, why I'm embarrassed about my eBook (2023)

#27
post #5

If you think it's bad that `break-*` isn't supported in Firefox or Chrome, wait till you see what your ebook looks like in Kindle, or worse, ADE-based readers, of which there are still many in use! Kindle, the reading device with by far the largest market share, is basically the IE6 of ereaders - too big to ignore, and at the same time dragging down the entire ebook ecosystem with its crappy renderer. Amazon has show…

You can ship an ebook as a pdf file! Then no rendering problems.

Re: Pagination widows, or, why I'm embarrassed about my eBook (2023)

#28

If I was designing an ebook reader, the display would look like a book's display. None of the ereaders I know of do this. 1. Have a background image that looks like paper. No, a solid white or tan background doesn't look like paper. Paper has imperfections in it, dirt, a grain, and you can faintly see the other side of the page. Except for the latter, this is easy to achieve. Simply scan a bunch of blank pages, and u…

Do all of that using a PRNG seeded for the book and the reader's ID. So your copy of the book is the same every time, but different from everybody else's.

Re: Pagination widows, or, why I'm embarrassed about my eBook (2023)

#29
post #20

Not to mention the ugly/unusable rendering of mathematical formulate in ebooks on my Kindle, which is gatherig dust. Layouting is an art and a craft, and the fact that it's automated by people who lack the specialized knowledge, or for whom it is not a priority (quarter century old bug reports, really?) suggests that in 2025, you should still avoid ebooks if you care about quality and aesthetics. This is a shame beca…

You could include the formulae as jpg's, not html.

The downside of that is screenreaders can't read them out.

Re: Pagination widows, or, why I'm embarrassed about my eBook (2023)

#30
post #5

If you think it's bad that `break-*` isn't supported in Firefox or Chrome, wait till you see what your ebook looks like in Kindle, or worse, ADE-based readers, of which there are still many in use! Kindle, the reading device with by far the largest market share, is basically the IE6 of ereaders - too big to ignore, and at the same time dragging down the entire ebook ecosystem with its crappy renderer. Amazon has show…

You can ship an ebook as a pdf file! Then no rendering problems.

But no reflow.
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