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Mac Mini with M4 Pro is the fastest Mac ever benchmarked

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Re: Mac Mini with M4 Pro is the fastest Mac ever benchmarked

#21

Geekbench multi falls off a cliff after ~16 cores. E.g. the Epyc 9654 with 96 cores benches lower than the Ryzen 7950X with 16 cores of the same generation.

In addition to the single-core-clock-speed difference, the different tasks in the multicore benchmark seem to all have different performance characteristics: https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/compare/8423876?baselin...

For some reason the Epyc is radically faster for "Ray Tracer" and "Horizon Detection" but worse for "PDF Renderer" and "Background Blur"

Re: Mac Mini with M4 Pro is the fastest Mac ever benchmarked

#22
post #7
post #3

Well, just wait till they benchmark the M4 Max a week later.

Yeah, the standard Apple line "our best _____ ever" is really tiresome. It's so tiresome, it makes me tired even when the line isn't said by Apple itself but from its sycophants and evangelists

I don’t really get tired of them releasing stuff that is better than the previous stuff?

Re: Mac Mini with M4 Pro is the fastest Mac ever benchmarked

#23

Geekbench multi falls off a cliff after ~16 cores. E.g. the Epyc 9654 with 96 cores benches lower than the Ryzen 7950X with 16 cores of the same generation.

That's not an accurate comparison. Base Freq Chip --------- ---- 2.4GHz EPYC 9654 4.7GHz Ryzen 7950X As a result, the SINGLE core performance difference is ~2x Geekbench Single Core - Score ----------------------------- 1,827 EPYC 9654 2,986 Ryzen 7950X Having such a large difference in single-core performance, will negate the sizable difference in total core count (96 vs 16). -- https://browser.geekbench.com/process…

A 1.6x single core performance difference won't negate a 6x core count advantage in peak multi core performance. The problem above is not that the cores are slower, it's that Geekbench will literally not utilize the additional cores in the first place. This compounds with what you're saying - the few cores that do get used have high clocks on the low core count optimized part but lower clocks on the high core count optimized part.

Compare this to a multithreaded benchmark that does scale to all of the cores and you'll find the higher core count CPUs are able to push significantly higher scores despite the single thread difference e.g. https://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html has them at 62,711 vs 117,317 in the opposite ranking direction. That should feel about right, otherwise AMD would only make the 16 core high frequency CPUs instead of 128 core low frequency monsters.

That's not to say the Geekbench score is bad or useless. It represents a specific type of workload... just not "peak multi core performance". It's more indicative of "mixed workload performance", where the extra 2x cores on the Ultra are more apparently going to be irrelevant.

Re: Mac Mini with M4 Pro is the fastest Mac ever benchmarked

#25
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the standard Apple line "our best _____ ever" is really tiresome. It's so tiresome, it makes me tired even when the line isn't said by Apple itself but from its sycophants and evangelists

I don’t really get tired of them releasing stuff that is better than the previous stuff?

The actual releasing of the stuff is not what I was referring when I specifically stated "the standard Apple line".

We know this is better than what you released previously, otherwise, why would you be releasing it. It's just over the top marketing/PR fluff that is over the top over used to the point it is meaningless approaching insulting

Re: Mac Mini with M4 Pro is the fastest Mac ever benchmarked

#27

Geekbench multi falls off a cliff after ~16 cores. E.g. the Epyc 9654 with 96 cores benches lower than the Ryzen 7950X with 16 cores of the same generation.

In addition to the single-core-clock-speed difference, the different tasks in the multicore benchmark seem to all have different performance characteristics: https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/compare/8423876?baselin... For some reason the Epyc is radically faster for "Ray Tracer" and "Horizon Detection" but worse for "PDF Renderer" and "Background Blur"

I played around a bit lately with finding ways to dramatically multithread code in golang, mostly for fun. What I found was that there was a threshold where the overhead of spinning up all the threads at the start and synchroninzing them at the end overwhelmed the time savings from actually performing the work in multiple threads.

It wouldn't surprise me if PDF renderer and background blur were fast enough tasks that spinning up 96 threads to split rendering across all those cores was a waste of time compared to how fast the actual task was to complete. It was akin to trying to hammer in 50 nails by getting 50 people and handing out 50 hammers and assigning each person one nail, then telling them "okay, start!", then inspecting everyone's work afterwards; at some point, it's faster just to break it into two or three tasks.

Re: Mac Mini with M4 Pro is the fastest Mac ever benchmarked

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not an accurate comparison. Base Freq Chip --------- ---- 2.4GHz EPYC 9654 4.7GHz Ryzen 7950X As a result, the SINGLE core performance difference is ~2x Geekbench Single Core - Score ----------------------------- 1,827 EPYC 9654 2,986 Ryzen 7950X Having such a large difference in single-core performance, will negate the sizable difference in total core count (96 vs 16). -- https://browser.geekbench.com/process…

> Having such a large difference in single-core performance, will negate the sizable difference in total core count (96 vs 16). But why? Wouldn’t total score be approximately corecount*corescore? Of course it’s not exactly that because not all cores run full speed at the same time, but how are the cores weighted that 16 cores are better than 96 cores with half the speed each?

Because multicore cpu's don't scale linearly due to NUMA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-uniform_memory_access

Re: Mac Mini with M4 Pro is the fastest Mac ever benchmarked

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not an accurate comparison. Base Freq Chip --------- ---- 2.4GHz EPYC 9654 4.7GHz Ryzen 7950X As a result, the SINGLE core performance difference is ~2x Geekbench Single Core - Score ----------------------------- 1,827 EPYC 9654 2,986 Ryzen 7950X Having such a large difference in single-core performance, will negate the sizable difference in total core count (96 vs 16). -- https://browser.geekbench.com/process…

> Having such a large difference in single-core performance, will negate the sizable difference in total core count (96 vs 16). But why? Wouldn’t total score be approximately corecount*corescore? Of course it’s not exactly that because not all cores run full speed at the same time, but how are the cores weighted that 16 cores are better than 96 cores with half the speed each?

Geekbench 5 and earlier constructed the multi-core test as essentially running N independent copies of the single-core test. This effectively pretends that every subtest is embarrassingly parallel. Geekbench 6 switched to having the multi-core test actually operate like real multi-threaded software: a fixed-size problem is broken up to be divided among available cores, with a non-zero amount of coordination between threads and potential for less than perfectly linear scaling because Amdahl's Law isn't being ignored.

Re: Mac Mini with M4 Pro is the fastest Mac ever benchmarked

#30
post #7
post #3

Well, just wait till they benchmark the M4 Max a week later.

Yeah, the standard Apple line "our best _____ ever" is really tiresome. It's so tiresome, it makes me tired even when the line isn't said by Apple itself but from its sycophants and evangelists

It’s not a given that a new thing is better than an old thing. Just ask Intel.

The news here is that the Pro isn’t just better than the previous Pro, it’s better than the previous Max and the previous Ultra. That’s impressive even if it’s expected that it will be better than the previous Pro.

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