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Microsoft is introducing hidden APIs to VS Code only enabled for Copilot?

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Re: Microsoft is introducing hidden APIs to VS Code only enabled for Copilot?

#21

Everyone is reading this as intentional anti-competitive practices. While that may be true, isn't another reasonable explanation that the Copilot development team is moving as fast as they can and these sorts of workarounds are being forced through in the name of team velocity? It takes a lot more time/energy to push public APIs and it's probably a very different team than the team developing the copilot extension. S…

fork vscode, do whatever you want. merge back when ready.

Re: Microsoft is introducing hidden APIs to VS Code only enabled for Copilot?

#22
post #12

There are just certain technologies my brain says "fuck, no" to. GNOME. The Great Banality Laser (whose official name was once Twitter). Visual Studio Code. The fullness of time usually proves my brain's initial impressions right, as it seems to be doing now with Visual Studio Code. I can still remember the monthly paroxysm of bliss that radiated throughout Hackernews, regular as clockwork, timed with Microsoft's mon…

I was with you on the first two. VS Code is the best developer experience I had since Delphi and Kate.

I don't care for it being in the news though.

Re: Microsoft is introducing hidden APIs to VS Code only enabled for Copilot?

#23

Everyone is reading this as intentional anti-competitive practices. While that may be true, isn't another reasonable explanation that the Copilot development team is moving as fast as they can and these sorts of workarounds are being forced through in the name of team velocity? It takes a lot more time/energy to push public APIs and it's probably a very different team than the team developing the copilot extension. S…

Are other extensions like Codeium[0] allowed to publish under the same rules? I'm not saying your comment is incorrect, but unless Copilot competitors can get the same treatment, it seems extremely unfair and anti-competitive.

[0]: https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=Codeium....

Re: Microsoft is introducing hidden APIs to VS Code only enabled for Copilot?

#24
post #20
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Going back? When did they stop?

There was that bit a few years back where the HN folk saw Satya as the second coming of Microsoft and anything even slightly critical or suspicious of Microsoft was downvoted to oblivion as highly implausible. I think people are still coming down from that high. He's not the messiah, he's a naughty businessman! (Note: I shot my HN account then because the majority of the MS stuff on here was utterly intolerable for m…

People on HN seem to be either very anti-corporatist or love to white knight big tech

There’s no in between.

Re: Microsoft is introducing hidden APIs to VS Code only enabled for Copilot?

#25
post #8
post #3

Lloks like Microsoft is going back to it's old ways. I am not surprised tbh.

What's the harm here if the APIs are temporary and they don't have a history of elongating the lives of temporary APIs like this? They've stated the purpose of these "proposed APIs" and we have no evidence from the last decade to believe they'd renege on their stated goals.

The harm is that third-party developers aren't allowed to publish extensions that use "proposed APIs", but Copilot doesn't have to follow these rules because Microsoft both develops the extension and runs the Extension Marketplace website. Microsoft is therefore able to add functionality to their extension that third-party developers can only add by forking VS Code. VS Code forks lose access to the Extension Marketplace, and many Microsoft-published extensions (such as Pylance and LiveShare) will only run on official Microsoft builds of VS Code, not forks.

Re: Microsoft is introducing hidden APIs to VS Code only enabled for Copilot?

#26

Everyone is reading this as intentional anti-competitive practices. While that may be true, isn't another reasonable explanation that the Copilot development team is moving as fast as they can and these sorts of workarounds are being forced through in the name of team velocity? It takes a lot more time/energy to push public APIs and it's probably a very different team than the team developing the copilot extension. S…

I would think this is less team velocity and more about LSP/etc. I am not an expert on how this is developed, but I imagine it will take at least a couple of years for the dust to settle to decide on good public API abstractions for LLM codegen, and they don’t want to introduce anything public that they have to maintain in concert with 3rd parties.

That’s not to say the general concern about GitHub-VSCode smothering competition isn’t valid, but I agree that it’s probably not what’s happening here.

Re: Microsoft is introducing hidden APIs to VS Code only enabled for Copilot?

#28
post #24
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was that bit a few years back where the HN folk saw Satya as the second coming of Microsoft and anything even slightly critical or suspicious of Microsoft was downvoted to oblivion as highly implausible. I think people are still coming down from that high. He's not the messiah, he's a naughty businessman! (Note: I shot my HN account then because the majority of the MS stuff on here was utterly intolerable for m…

People on HN seem to be either very anti-corporatist or love to white knight big tech There’s no in between.

Hey I'm right in the middle: I use a Mac and use open source software on it, while moaning how shitty both are.

Re: Microsoft is introducing hidden APIs to VS Code only enabled for Copilot?

#29

Everyone is reading this as intentional anti-competitive practices. While that may be true, isn't another reasonable explanation that the Copilot development team is moving as fast as they can and these sorts of workarounds are being forced through in the name of team velocity? It takes a lot more time/energy to push public APIs and it's probably a very different team than the team developing the copilot extension. S…

Are other extensions like Codeium[0] allowed to publish under the same rules? I'm not saying your comment is incorrect, but unless Copilot competitors can get the same treatment, it seems extremely unfair and anti-competitive. [0]: https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=Codeium....

[flagged]

Re: Microsoft is introducing hidden APIs to VS Code only enabled for Copilot?

#30
post #3

Lloks like Microsoft is going back to it's old ways. I am not surprised tbh.

I mean, Microsoft has been very clear about their business model of VSCode -- similar to Chromium, the base product is free and you can do whatever you want (and indeed there are lots of products reusing the core of VSCode), but extension marketplace/remote/GitHub Copilot are proprietary. It sounds like a fair deal to me -- Microsoft can't just do open source without expecting to get something in return.

Now, coming back to private APIs, it's hard to know whether this is because Microsoft intentionally wants to keep competition out, or it is just hard to standardize/finalize APIs. I do know that VSCode development team takes extreme care when it comes to their APIs -- new features can take years before they are ready (most recenly coverage APIs, for example), and they don't want to release something when it's not ready, and I respect that. And to be fair, they have a number of "inline completion" APIs standardized as both VSCode APIs and LSP protocol (upcoming). I'm sure there is a lot to be desired, but it should be a nuanced discussion instead of simply "Microsoft bad".

(I am a VSCode extension & LSP author, not affiliated with Microsoft at all)

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