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Shanghai Before the Foreigners

jaapgrolleman.com

21–30 of 43 posts

Re: Shanghai Before the Foreigners

#21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100x growth in 20 years starting from 1980 is insane. Would’ve been very interesting to witness.

Shenzhen received, in 1980, the special legal privilege of engaging in commerce with Hong Kong. It's not natural growth.

That doesn't dull their point; that kind of growth, natural or not, is wild.

Re: Shanghai Before the Foreigners

#22
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100x growth in 20 years starting from 1980 is insane. Would’ve been very interesting to witness.

the migration during the last decades from rural China into the cities has been the largest population migration in the history (something like 800M people moved). One can imagine how future generations will be learning about great migrations - like that of the Goths and Huns in the 4th century or this migration in China in the 20-21st century and the resulting large scale effects on the history lasting for centuries…

> One can imagine how future generations will be learning about great migrations

They won't be. Twisting and erasing history is part and parcel of Chinese education.

Re: Shanghai Before the Foreigners

#23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shenzhen received, in 1980, the special legal privilege of engaging in commerce with Hong Kong. It's not natural growth.

That doesn't dull their point; that kind of growth, natural or not, is wild.

That kind of growth is what you see when everyone outside is legally required to be poor.

Re: Shanghai Before the Foreigners

#24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't dull their point; that kind of growth, natural or not, is wild.

That kind of growth is what you see when everyone outside is legally required to be poor.

For a country with nearly one billion poor people, one will never make all of them rich with one step. That is why China "allows some peasants to get rich first", and why they say "Common Prosperity Does Not Mean Equal Wealth" and "Those Who Become Prosperous First Helping Those Who Lag Behind". Although it is truly questionable if those get rich first want to help those lag behind, with a big government, it is more or less realized.

Re: Shanghai Before the Foreigners

#25
post #5

Nice share but after reading the article my existing view that the area of greater Shanghai was an agricultural area without substantial urban development until the opium wars is unchallenged. Nice to see some familiar spots. About 21 years ago I used to go to the Jing'An temple for lunch on weekends and chat with the monks. They had excellent vegetarian food in the temple, and often the monks would buy me lunch. If…

Nanjing, just an hour or so up the river, is multiple thousands of years old and is one of the most important historical cities in Chinese history. So it is really no surprise that Shanghai was not developed until foreign trade became important.

> just an hour or so up the river

Bullet train takes nearly 2 hours. So I assume it would take about half a day by boat. But still good point.

Re: Shanghai Before the Foreigners

#26

Related: Taipan by James Ckavelk. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tai-Pan_(novel) I had read it some years ago. Interesting depictions of that period, Hong Kong, interactions between the British and Chinese then, and more. Good writing, IMO. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Clavell Excerpt: >Clavell wanted to write a second novel because "that separates the men from the boys".[21] The money from King Rat enabled…

Great book. Noble House (also by Clavell) is also excellent and takes place a century later, also in Hong Kong, and about the same firm established in Tai-Pan.

Re: Shanghai Before the Foreigners

#27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bear in mind that the growth of one fishing village involves growing-into aka annexing neighboring villages, I've heard it said "Shenzhen did not start as one village, it started as thousands"

This is a super important point, Chinese city are the equivalent of American MSA's.

No, Shenzhen is just one city. The metro area is the Pearl River Delta Metropolitan Region. That includes Hong Kong, Guangzhou, Shenzhen, Zhuhai, Huizhou, Foshan, Zhongshan, and Dongguan. The metro area is about 75km across. 86 million people.[1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_River_Delta

Re: Shanghai Before the Foreigners

#28
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That kind of growth is what you see when everyone outside is legally required to be poor.

For a country with nearly one billion poor people, one will never make all of them rich with one step. That is why China "allows some peasants to get rich first", and why they say "Common Prosperity Does Not Mean Equal Wealth" and "Those Who Become Prosperous First Helping Those Who Lag Behind". Although it is truly questionable if those get rich first want to help those lag behind, with a big government, it is more…

So trickle down economics ?

Re: Shanghai Before the Foreigners

#29

Related: Taipan by James Ckavelk. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tai-Pan_(novel) I had read it some years ago. Interesting depictions of that period, Hong Kong, interactions between the British and Chinese then, and more. Good writing, IMO. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Clavell Excerpt: >Clavell wanted to write a second novel because "that separates the men from the boys".[21] The money from King Rat enabled…

I didn't realize Shogun was his third book. I somehow always thought it was his first.

Also this

> Clavell admired Ayn Rand, founder of the Objectivist school of philosophy

Never meet your heroes, I suppose..

Re: Shanghai Before the Foreigners

#30
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a super important point, Chinese city are the equivalent of American MSA's.

No, Shenzhen is just one city. The metro area is the Pearl River Delta Metropolitan Region. That includes Hong Kong, Guangzhou, Shenzhen, Zhuhai, Huizhou, Foshan, Zhongshan, and Dongguan. The metro area is about 75km across. 86 million people.[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_River_Delta

You can randomly circle area. But that is integrated, even cat ones gov is not totally on charge of Shenzhen, let alone the hk even after suppressing freedom there. This is different kind of cats herding cf inside major china area.
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