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Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel 2024

nobelprize.org

21–30 of 116 posts

Re: Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel 2024

#21
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pro-Trump tech folks are 90% about crypto. It's single-issue politics, like abortion or gun rights. Scratch the surface on a SV Trump supporter like Marc Andreessen, and you'll find a big bag of crypto that they want to keep dumping on retail investors.

Which crypto Bill Ackman is trying to dump on retail?

Ackman is not a tech folk.

Re: Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel 2024

#22
post #17
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read the summary from the review and I am not convinced that neoliberal US and EU have a less extractive governance structure than China has, as the authors seem to claim. It's been a decade since the book was published and China is still going strong. We will see.

China has become more and more authoritarian under Xi, its GDP growth stats may be dodgy, and recently its housing bubble has popped big-style. It could go the way of Japan. I agree with your last sentence, all the same.

How do you know this?

I don’t want to single this out but tangible proof of a net increase in ‘authoritarian’ decision making, compared to say a decade ago, has never been posted on HN, as far as I know.

Most of the in depth analysis I’ve seen suggests that although enforcement actions have become stricter over the past decade, the actual number of new laws and regulations has gone down.

And more importantly, the number of contradictory laws and regulations (between central authorities, and between the centre and provinces) has gone way way down.

So there’s much less leeway to punish on a whim or trap someone in a double bind, compared to a decade ago. Which suggests a net decrease, if anything.

Re: Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel 2024

#23
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China has become more and more authoritarian under Xi, its GDP growth stats may be dodgy, and recently its housing bubble has popped big-style. It could go the way of Japan. I agree with your last sentence, all the same.

How do you know this? I don’t want to single this out but tangible proof of a net increase in ‘authoritarian’ decision making, compared to say a decade ago, has never been posted on HN, as far as I know. Most of the in depth analysis I’ve seen suggests that although enforcement actions have become stricter over the past decade, the actual number of new laws and regulations has gone down. And more importantly, the num…

It depends on if you’re talking about authoritarianism as it relates to the average person or the political and ruling class. There have been a lot of reports of Xi getting rid of a lot of potential adversaries when he announced himself ruler for life and the imprisonment of Jack Ma and stripping him of his wealth for making challenging statements against Xi seems pretty authoritarian.

Re: Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel 2024

#24
post #9
post #2

Which is why the pro-Trump tech folks are playing with fire. Exchanging potentially faster approvals/lower regulation for favored projects, for an environment where rule of law and institutions are weakened.

The slow and messy process of reaching consensus (or close) via a complex web of institutions help “western” (in the sense that Kotkin uses) societies avoid really bad policy and adapt to mistakes. Some people are frustrated by this and think it would be much better to substitute their judgment for this process. They don’t necessarily hold this view selfishly or maliciously, they are just short sighted.

Yes. Their judgment. Everyone else gets to shut up and take it. It's a very selfish view, whether or not they are consciously selfish about it.

Re: Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel 2024

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know this? I don’t want to single this out but tangible proof of a net increase in ‘authoritarian’ decision making, compared to say a decade ago, has never been posted on HN, as far as I know. Most of the in depth analysis I’ve seen suggests that although enforcement actions have become stricter over the past decade, the actual number of new laws and regulations has gone down. And more importantly, the num…

It depends on if you’re talking about authoritarianism as it relates to the average person or the political and ruling class. There have been a lot of reports of Xi getting rid of a lot of potential adversaries when he announced himself ruler for life and the imprisonment of Jack Ma and stripping him of his wealth for making challenging statements against Xi seems pretty authoritarian.

Does it makes sense to discuss it relative to the ‘political and ruling class’?

Since they pretty much all have party cards already. And the moment they give it up means they’re kicked out from any decision making, from what I understand.

Yes internal factions within the party can arbitrarily punish each other for made up reasons all day long, every day of the year.

So in a sense it was already authoritarian without limit.

But that’s not new, nor different from any other big political party.

Re: Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel 2024

#26
post #14

I strongly recommend Acemoglu, Robinson classic book "Why Nations Fail" https://www.amazon.com/Why-Nations-Fail-Origins-Prosperity/d... It's very accessible, no economics background required. Along with Krugman and Kahneman, one of the few economics scholars that take the time to write a book for layman.

I read the summary from the review and I am not convinced that neoliberal US and EU have a less extractive governance structure than China has, as the authors seem to claim. It's been a decade since the book was published and China is still going strong. We will see.

Do you actually think China has fairer courts, more open financial markets, and better business environment than the EU or US? For the longest time Hong Kong had to fill those gaps for China in order for the country to attract capital.

Regardless, even if China does today the explanation still holds considering China only transformed a few decades before the book was written.

Re: Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel 2024

#27
Terrible decision. Very bad and sloppy economics, a simplified version of what sociology and political science have been doing much better for over 40 years, as if before these crucial contributions we had no idea that institutions, forms of power and social conflict affect economic outcomes.

Branko Milanovic has aptly and rather amusingly defined Acemoglu's naive theorizing as "Wikipedia entries with regressions" https://glineq.blogspot.com/2014/08/my-take-on-acemoglu-robi... and he is right.

Acemoglu's strand of institutional social science is known to be painfully racist and clueless about realities on the ground https://africasacountry.com/2016/09/africa-why-western-econo... The narrative that you can get economic growth with "good institutions" is a fable, and cases like China are also completely outside their narrative. Not only is their narrative historically inaccurate, if not ideological, it can't explain why Western economies like the US have prospered despite being as corrupt as China is today.

Re: Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel 2024

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on if you’re talking about authoritarianism as it relates to the average person or the political and ruling class. There have been a lot of reports of Xi getting rid of a lot of potential adversaries when he announced himself ruler for life and the imprisonment of Jack Ma and stripping him of his wealth for making challenging statements against Xi seems pretty authoritarian.

Does it makes sense to discuss it relative to the ‘political and ruling class’? Since they pretty much all have party cards already. And the moment they give it up means they’re kicked out from any decision making, from what I understand. Yes internal factions within the party can arbitrarily punish each other for made up reasons all day long, every day of the year. So in a sense it was already authoritarian without…

The kind of punishment authoritarian regimes dish out is much more severe in ways that you couldn’t do in the US (imprisonment, seizure of assets, death). In fact I’d argue it’s the only kind that matters. Authoritarian regimes rarely go after normal people unless they speak out actively against the government (which China does) and instead focus on controlling and censoring anyone in a position of power and let the implicit censoring of the entire population flow downstream from that.

Re: Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel 2024

#29
post #6

Well deserved. Acemoglu is the economist everyone respects. Very technical, but not for the sake of mathiness. His models have a meaning. They clarify thought and ideas. https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=l9Or8EMAAAAJ&hl=en

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Re: Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel 2024

#30

I strongly recommend Acemoglu, Robinson classic book "Why Nations Fail" https://www.amazon.com/Why-Nations-Fail-Origins-Prosperity/d... It's very accessible, no economics background required. Along with Krugman and Kahneman, one of the few economics scholars that take the time to write a book for layman.

> Krugman

Not sure I'd spend time on a Krugman book. He predicted in 1998 that the internet would cease having an economic impact by 2005 and that it would be no greater than fax machines. He's like the Neil deGrasse Tyson of economics.

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