I've met (and worked with) folks who gain certification after certification. In the information security industry this is very rampant. Unfortunately, certification programs feel like empty knowledge. It's a lot of trivia, in some of the better ones there is hands-on, but I'd argue that once you have a foundation (from somewhere: school, work, cert program?) that you're better off improving yourself and demonstrating your worth by contributing to the community. Collecting more merit badges from cert providers doesn't really improve you as a professional beyond a certain level.
Are technical certifications of any worth?
21–26 of 26 posts
Re: Are technical certifications of any worth?
#22Even degrees don't mean much. It's not like you get to skip the fizzbuzz and trivia/whiteboard gauntlet by virtue of a fancy CS degree from Yale. Obviously certifications are worth less than Ivy League degrees, so that should give some idea what certifications are worth. The basic issue is that there are plenty of people with certifications and degrees that can't produce, they are completely helpless. And there are p…
I would guess that there is a very high correlation between CS degrees and programming or problem solving ability. I've worked in a pretty good lab full of grad students and their average skill level was dramatically higher than what you find at an average company (or at least, what I've seen working at half a dozen or so places), let alone what you see from average job applicants. Upon graduation most of these people easily found jobs at places like Google. They didn't get stumped on FizzBuzz because they had spent their time on abstract academic problems without real-world application.
There are definitely some people with CS degrees who cannot code, and you don't want to hire those people. The existence of these exceptions however doesn't mean that degrees aren't a strong positive signal when you are looking to hire somebody competent.
I think there's at least some reactionary bias against formal qualifications in the software industry and in startups. Some of the old professions like law or medicine do go too far the other way, but it's just as wrong to fetishize "real world experience".
Re: Are technical certifications of any worth?
#23However, if you've banged around in dead-end entry level jobs till you're 40, didn't go to uni, and are desperate to break the $40k/yr barrier because you've racked up a history of ex-wives and expensive child support payments and spending yet another 5 years renting the room above your now elderly parent's garage...they can mean the difference between $20/hr and a proper full-time job with benefits and an actual real salary.
At those kinds of employment levels, and for those kinds of employers, we're not talking about staffers or employers who are passionate about their IT systems or development staff.
At those levels IT is a cost center, barely tolerated but necessary. Think "IT guy for a department store". Managed at corporate by somebody who made a name for themselves by being the top floor salesperson of ties and suspenders and who told his manager one day in passing that he can copy CDs to mp3 files and is therefore qualified to run the regional IT systems.
Both the employees and the employers in these situations simply have entirely different life priorities than most of the folks here. To these folks the certs are extremely valuable, perhaps a 20-30% pay bump on both sides.
To the corporate IT manager he gets to tell his bosses that he has certified staff (and not part-time hobbyists he wrangled up from the Geek Squad when the local Best Buy closed up shop). This metric, at those levels of abstraction is important.
To the employee it's a big pay bump, and opens up lots of mediocre, but better paying jobs.
If you think of the IT world as analogous to Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, the folks on this board are near the top, seeking Self-actualization, but the broader IT world is closer to the bottom of the pyramid and is therefore composed of many more people and positions in that pyramid.
Some folks are just simply destined to dwell in the lower levels of the pyramid, either by circumstance or poor life choices, and the cert might be just enough to move them up a level.
Re: Are technical certifications of any worth?
#24Most (not all) are pointless multiple guess waste of time and passable by anybody compitent after they have drunk a bottle of vodka, been up for 5 days straight etc etc.
Some are actualy using real good practical exams and those have some crdability though they are few and washed by the tarnshish of certs being crap since the MCSE multiple guess muppet days. I've been a situation were the MCSE guru was unable to resolve a windows problem and me as the UNIX guru solved in a minute using common sence and understanding computers. That to me highlighted why alot of certs are bad.
Now sadly certs help you get past the HR people who have no clue about IT and over the past 10-20 years grown into a egotistical power-house that controls things they have no clue upon. 20 years ago I had a job interview, I was in my late teens and was a etchnical position. HR interviewed me first and there attitude was so sucking even saying I dont see why somebody your age should be paid this amount. i then had te technical interview with the person who was the manager for the job and his contractor and blew them both away with my skills that they offered me more than I was asking for. I turned them down just becasue the HR department pissed me off that much. So Brown and Root engineering, you missed out there.
Sadly HR have grown and so have a whole generation of IT managers who don't know IT or can use word and think that is knowing IT. These sadly have no clue and will look at a CV for certs.
Bottom line if they need certs then generaly they are not a company that you want to work for and if they dont demand certs and do proper technical interviews/screening, then they are the ones you want to be working for. Anything else is extra crap/stress you will never be paid to endure.
Remember that there is only one real certification that carry's any real weight and needs to be respected and that is the certification of sane and insane. Respect them both as one bites and the other knows somebody who bites.
How to get a interview and bypass HR, now that is a certification I'd study for thesedays.
Re: Are technical certifications of any worth?
#25Additionally, if you are any sort of consultant, having certification can help you acquire contracts.
Mainly, I've found certifications to be useful only when working with non-computer folks. Against your own peers they seem to have little to no weight. Fortunately, they don't really have any negative weight either, unless you go around flaunting them.
Re: Are technical certifications of any worth?
#26Earlier quoted context omitted.
I would think that certs would be useful in signaling commitment for people wanting to join that workforce.
Whatever marginal value they have as a signal of commitment is swamped by their negative signaling. Top caliber talent won't usually be certified; why waste the time getting "certified" by organizations that are probably less competent than you? Successive rounds of adverse selection produce a "certified" pool of candidates who are unwilling or unable to achieve a basic level of facility in their field on their own,…