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Rust needs a web framework

ntietz.com

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Re: Rust needs a web framework

#21

Post by RandomThoughts3 »

p1necone wrote: post #20
elAhmo wrote: post #18

Rust is not for lazy developers and there are other languages if you want to put minimal effort in building things.

I'm a lazy developer and I love languages with an "if it compiles it works" feel. I'd much rather hack around in rust or typescript with half my brain switched off and a beer in hand and eventually get working software than hack around in javascript with half my brain switched off and a beer in hand and get more and more broken software until I eventually give up.

Then just use Ocaml or F#. You are welcome.

Re: Rust needs a web framework

#22

Post by [deleted] »

hermanradtke wrote: post #5
dartos wrote: post #2

Isn’t there a rust rails clone? Yeah, it’s called loco https://loco.rs/ FWIW I prefer the pile of libraries. Big frameworks are good for scrappy startups trying to push their product out asap, but in most of situations, I’d like a lower abstraction system to build on.

Rails clones in modern languages don’t get wide adoption. I wrote about why I think that is: https://hermanradtke.com/why-your-rails-like-framework-is-no...

[deleted]

Re: Rust needs a web framework

#23

Post by 27theo »

p1necone wrote: post #20
elAhmo wrote: post #18

Rust is not for lazy developers and there are other languages if you want to put minimal effort in building things.

I'm a lazy developer and I love languages with an "if it compiles it works" feel. I'd much rather hack around in rust or typescript with half my brain switched off and a beer in hand and eventually get working software than hack around in javascript with half my brain switched off and a beer in hand and get more and more broken software until I eventually give up.

TypeScript sure, but Rust? Half your brain switched off? There is a middle ground between unfettered madness and the Rust compiler's strict regime. Maybe try Elm.

Re: Rust needs a web framework

#24

Post by wongarsu »

devjab wrote: post #10

> I like to make silly things, and I also like to put in minimal effort for those silly things. I also like to make things in Rust… I think this part is perhaps the silliest part of a very silly article. If you really like to put in a minimal effort then why on earth would you use Rust? If you want efficiency, memory management and a compiled modern language just use Go. Then you won’t even need anything but the stan…

This is definetly something the article should have drilled down on. Why Rust? I'm sure everyone's tired of hearing why rust is an excellent alternative to c/c++ for new projects, but as an alternative against Python it gets muddier. Rust has a clear advantage in performance and memory footprint and a much better multithreading story, but those are things that aren't high priorities for 95% of web development.

That basically leaves you with Rust's type system. Rust's type system is pretty great, and if we pretend we can't hear the Haskell developers it's one of the best type systems out there. That might seem to get in the way of quick prototyping, but on the other hand it would mesh really well with a framework like Django. One of the great things of Django was that you define your data schema, and Django takes care of both the database and a passable admin area. I'm sure you could greatly expand on that principle, with data types driving a lot of behavior and conveniences that the framework just handles for you.

Maybe a bit like .NET, but without the enterprisy coat of paint and without putting dependency injection everywhere.

Re: Rust needs a web framework

#25

Post by paulgb »

devjab wrote: post #10

> I like to make silly things, and I also like to put in minimal effort for those silly things. I also like to make things in Rust… I think this part is perhaps the silliest part of a very silly article. If you really like to put in a minimal effort then why on earth would you use Rust? If you want efficiency, memory management and a compiled modern language just use Go. Then you won’t even need anything but the stan…

The author is clearly building things for the joy of it. If she gets the most joy from Rust, that's what she should use!

> See, if I want to make something for the web, I could use Django but I don't want that. I mean, Django is for building serious businesses, not for building silly non-commercial things!

Personally, I spent the first decade of my career switching between languages, believing that I should use the best tool for any given job. I spent the last ~five years doing mostly Rust, and I've learned that there's a level of mastery of a language you can never quite reach if you're always context-switching between them, especially a language as “deep” as Rust. This means I write things in Rust that Rust is not the best language for.

Re: Rust needs a web framework

#26

Post by axegon_ »

There is one: Poem[1]

The author mentions flask but looking at the "What we need section", I don't think flask covers those. I hate Djago with a passion but if those are the requirements, I think Django is the one that closely resembles what the author is describing. So Poem is not a good candidate either in that regard. Poem is all in all, something that closely resembles FastAPI, which is actually a complement. I've tried half a dozen rust web frameworks and they all come with a ton of boilerplate fiddling with the initial setup. Which is a problem if you want to get things done fast. In that regard, poem nails it. Yes, actix has a considerably better performance but unless you are aiming for sub-30 millisecond responses, then actix is not what you should be looking at to begin with. Also if you crave a Pydantic, there is a crate that sort of does that for you: https://crates.io/crates/poem-openapi

[1] https://github.com/poem-web/poem

Re: Rust needs a web framework

#27

Post by andrewxdiamond »

devjab wrote: post #10

> I like to make silly things, and I also like to put in minimal effort for those silly things. I also like to make things in Rust… I think this part is perhaps the silliest part of a very silly article. If you really like to put in a minimal effort then why on earth would you use Rust? If you want efficiency, memory management and a compiled modern language just use Go. Then you won’t even need anything but the stan…

> I also like to make things in Rust

Seems like a good enough reason to use it to me, but perhaps I’m just another cult member.

> we use Rust in production because we thought it would be easier (well safer) to teach to interpreted language OOP developers than c/c++

I think rust is just safer period, regardless of your level of expertise or background. Or are you saying that every memory safety bug was written in by someone inexperienced?

Not to mention the concept of “sharing code.” See I may write garbage tier rust code that basically glues together a bunch of libraries, many of those libraries are written by programmers way better than me, and I can gain performance and safety from using their work. The performance difference between languages like Rust and JS is huge, even if I, tainted by my background in Java, write dogshit code.

Re: Rust needs a web framework

#28

Post by the__alchemist »

100%! I love Rust, but I will still use Python for backends because of Django. Rocket, Actix, Axum etc are more like Flask, but without Flask's integrations for the services. I don't understand why there are so many competing microframeworks; one of them should have IMO pivoted to a Django-like a while ago.
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