O aries were last century (1996); E caballus are more recent (2003); M mulatta current news (2020); how long until H sapiens?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horse_cloning#Entering_the_com...
US man jailed for cloning giant sheep for trophy hunting
21–30 of 32 posts
Re: US man jailed for cloning giant sheep for trophy hunting
#22The saddest part is if you image search "Marco Polo argali" it's a wall of hunters posing with dead ones and right in the first paragraph on wikipedia is "Their conservation status is "near threatened" and efforts have been made to protect their numbers and keep them from being hunted"
It's an interesting question as to if what this man did was helpful or harmful to those conservation efforts. It's at least possible that someone who would otherwise have hunted one just to have the 'wall art' might have hunted a hybrid instead. Also from a purely genetic standpoint it increased the number of copies of that genetic code.
It's not really though, specifically because they are considered invasive to Montana. This thought experiment loses all merit in this case under that context.
He fucked up in multiple ways, outside of the cloning.
The animal (or 'parts') he imported was illegal and engangered. And he was set to further endanger the Montana flock with it's introduction.
This guy is a menace, F him.
EDIT: Oh yeah I forgot - all this effort was to sell the illegally imported / created animal which endangers the native animal population to bolster his business of raising unusual animals specifically for closed big game trophy hunting.
So he is fine with risking Montanas wildlife population to enrich himself and 'create' new franken-animals specifically to kill them when they are the right size.
I hope this guy perishes of old age in jail and this has a chilling effect on anyone else pulling this crap.
Re: US man jailed for cloning giant sheep for trophy hunting
#23I'm even confused about hunting sheep. Modern domestic sheep are not much of a challenge.
A domestic sheep isn't a challenge because they are located in places conducive to domestication.
A wild bighorn sheep lives remotely and is highly skittish.
Re: US man jailed for cloning giant sheep for trophy hunting
#24Far more coherent write up of the initial charges: https://dailymontanan.com/2024/02/07/montana-man-charged-by-...
Also note the charges of conspiracy. He and his co-conspirators knew what they were doing was illegal and took steps to falsify records.
Re: US man jailed for cloning giant sheep for trophy hunting
#25>District Court Judge Brian Morris said he struggled to come up with a sentence, but had to deter anyone else from trying to "change the genetic makeup of the creatures" on the planet. Whatever the judge is feeling today, huh?
Ever heard of the Hungry Judge Effect?
Re: US man jailed for cloning giant sheep for trophy hunting
#26Re: US man jailed for cloning giant sheep for trophy hunting
#27>District Court Judge Brian Morris said he struggled to come up with a sentence, but had to deter anyone else from trying to "change the genetic makeup of the creatures" on the planet. Whatever the judge is feeling today, huh?
Ever heard of the Hungry Judge Effect? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungry_judge_effect
I think that study, though heavily cited, is now considered to be a pretty shaky conclusion, even if not actually disproven.
Re: US man jailed for cloning giant sheep for trophy hunting
#28To me the real infraction was the potential for causing disease in the native population. The rest, while morally dubious, doesn't feel like it's illegal.
He very clearly conspired to actively break the most serious wildlife protection law available, in a conspiracy that spanned over 10 years, in a position which he absolutely would have known he was breaking those laws.
He surreptitiously and illegally imported parts of an endangered animal breaking both domestic and international laws (again, knowingly).
All of this was done secretly, down to forging Veterinary Certificates and other documents meant to pass them off as 'legal, domestic' breeds.
He then went on to purposefully create hybrids that he knew were illegal and invasive in his state, he knew was violating the highest wildlife law in the land (who have more authority than pretty much any police department or agency) --- all of this, with the sole purpose of growing large unique hybrids to sell to game preserves which are closed (no chance of escape) for big game trophey hunters.
I couldn't write a better villain backstory if I tried. This guy deserves to have the book thrown at him, along with everyone he conspired with.
Did you even read the article? Or are you just reading the comments? All of this is so abundantly clear I find it impossible anyone could read it and say 'that doesn't FEEL illegal, just morally dubious'.
He for sure KNEW it was illegal given his industry, forgeries, and other attempts to conceal his actions.
Re: US man jailed for cloning giant sheep for trophy hunting
#29To me the real infraction was the potential for causing disease in the native population. The rest, while morally dubious, doesn't feel like it's illegal.
He very clearly conspired to actively break the most serious wildlife protection law available, in a conspiracy that spanned over 10 years, in a position which he absolutely would have known he was breaking those laws. He surreptitiously and illegally imported parts of an endangered animal breaking both domestic and international laws (again, knowingly). All of this was done secretly, down to forging Veterinary Certi…
Most of this tho, really, is what we do all the time with other types of animals (minus the hitech cloning aspect). We import genetic material to breed horses for instance, all the time. The article didn't say they killed the animal. If they had, then sure that would break endangered species laws.
So the invasiveness of the species and it's likelyhood to cause harm to the population seems like the key points.
Re: US man jailed for cloning giant sheep for trophy hunting
#30I read the article, but I'm still not sure what part was illegal, and why. It says that part of the law is 'prevent the creation of hybrids', and the sentence was to 'deter anyone else from trying to "change the genetic makeup of the creatures"'... but isn't that way every animal breeder does? I get the importation of body parts of endangered animals being illegal. If it's just a sentence for that then I get it. But…
> “In pursuit of this scheme, Schubarth violated international law and the Lacey Act, both of which protect the viability and health of native populations of animals. ...
> The Lacey Act prohibits interstate trade in wildlife that has been taken, possessed, transported or sold in violation of federal or state law. The Lacey Act also prohibits the interstate sale of wildlife that has been falsely labeled. The Act is one of the most powerful tools the United States has to combat wildlife trafficking and prevent ecological invasion by injurious wildlife."
Laws aside, I think the largest potential harm is introducing a potentially invasive species that could harm local ecosystem.