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We need more zero config tools

arne.me

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Re: We need more zero config tools

#21

Post by dimal »

mattlondon wrote: post #4

I know this will be unpopular but I try to live a zero-config life. I just live with the defaults 99% of the time. I prefer not to be beholden to some special keyboard map or shell config or that essential plugin that does something very niche that you could simply not live without any more , because what if you do need to live without it? If you ever change machine or do pair programming or whatever where you are no…

I can understand that POV and would love to be able to do that, but as a neurodivergent person, I could never live that way. The default settings for the world are generally intolerable to me. I customize absolutely everything in my life. Without that, I’d be a jibbering wreck 99% of the time. If I have to forgo pair programming to function optimally the rest of the time, I’ll take that deal.

I would love simpler configs though. In my view, technology should adapt to humans, not the other way around. The problem isn’t that things are too configurable. The problem is that configuration is too difficult.

Re: We need more zero config tools

#22

Post by rcxdude »

Sensible defaults are very much appreciated (and I've also adopted the philosophy of trying to avoid depending on elaborate customised configurations), but zero-config is not a good goal in and of itself. Very frequently I've found a configuration option is the difference between a tool that does and doesn't work at all for me.

Re: We need more zero config tools

#23

Post by rty32 »

When I develop tools/real products for others, I try to come up with the best defaults and provide the best experience out of the box, because most people don't ever touch settings. On the other hand, I think it is important to have almost as many settings as technical possible/feasible and try to make them discoverable, and encourage people to customize -- although maybe not spend too much time on that.

One setting that completely changed how I use vim: relative line number (and the "smart" version). I learned about it recently and realized I had wasted a stupid amount of time in the past decade since I used vim. Should that be the default? Probably not. But people do need to customize the editor to make it the most efficient and productive for themselves. I just wish relative line numbers are marketed more, and there is a way to gradually discover settings that people may want to tweak.

Re: We need more zero config tools

#24

Post by Iulioh »

dimal wrote: post #21
mattlondon wrote: post #4

I know this will be unpopular but I try to live a zero-config life. I just live with the defaults 99% of the time. I prefer not to be beholden to some special keyboard map or shell config or that essential plugin that does something very niche that you could simply not live without any more , because what if you do need to live without it? If you ever change machine or do pair programming or whatever where you are no…

I can understand that POV and would love to be able to do that, but as a neurodivergent person, I could never live that way. The default settings for the world are generally intolerable to me. I customize absolutely everything in my life. Without that, I’d be a jibbering wreck 99% of the time. If I have to forgo pair programming to function optimally the rest of the time, I’ll take that deal. I would love simpler con…

My Android homepage had a 4 hour setup process, it was not fun but oh god it's cool.

Re: We need more zero config tools

#25

Post by Zababa »

mattlondon wrote: post #4

I know this will be unpopular but I try to live a zero-config life. I just live with the defaults 99% of the time. I prefer not to be beholden to some special keyboard map or shell config or that essential plugin that does something very niche that you could simply not live without any more , because what if you do need to live without it? If you ever change machine or do pair programming or whatever where you are no…

> barely more competent than a 3 year old using a computer for the first time because there is only vi and not Emacs,

I think this is very exaggerated. I have git alias to "g" to save a few keystrokes, docker to "d", use a lot fd instead of find as it's better/more intuitive. I have a VSCode with the Go LSP. Sometimes I'm on systems without all of that, with plain vi/nano, and yes I'm slower but far from a "3 year old using a computer for the first time". I don't lose the speed I got from my experience of using a computer suddenly. I lose some of it, but not that much.

I would even say that it's more about managing emotions (I really really really don't like tools that don't work how I want to/needing to write more than I actually need) than raw speed, even if I also get raw speed.

> Just open a vanilla laptop and guess what, it already has "your" config since they are all the defaults! Spend that mental energy and time on something else and get stuff done.

It's like a few hours and I change laptops less than once a year. Also that's not actually true because you'll probably don't have Git installed, or a LSP, or the ssh config for your VPS, or your passwords, or any other stuff that you need.

Re: We need more zero config tools

#26

Post by Cushman »

mattlondon wrote: post #4

I know this will be unpopular but I try to live a zero-config life. I just live with the defaults 99% of the time. I prefer not to be beholden to some special keyboard map or shell config or that essential plugin that does something very niche that you could simply not live without any more , because what if you do need to live without it? If you ever change machine or do pair programming or whatever where you are no…

> If you ever change machine or do pair programming or whatever where you are not using your highly-tweaked config, and you are essentially a frustrated jibbering wreck and barely more competent than a 3 year old using a computer for the first time

I was once pairing on the lead’s laptop and switched the keyboard to Dvorak. This was back in 2010 or so, when the input menu wouldn’t show on the lock screen by default. The lead could not type Dvorak, and of course I did not know their password. I remember that moment of silent contemplation keenly…

That’s to say, yes, and the sensation of being a frustrated jibbering wreck can be contagious :')

Re: We need more zero config tools

#28

Post by Zababa »

cjk wrote: post #19
mattlondon wrote: post #4

I know this will be unpopular but I try to live a zero-config life. I just live with the defaults 99% of the time. I prefer not to be beholden to some special keyboard map or shell config or that essential plugin that does something very niche that you could simply not live without any more , because what if you do need to live without it? If you ever change machine or do pair programming or whatever where you are no…

I try to do this as well, with the notable exceptions of neovim, zsh, and tmux. My zsh configuration, despite being quite large, has never broken in strange and hilarious ways when adopting a new version of zsh. The opposite is true for neovim, and to a lesser degree, tmux. Nearly every time I install a neovim update, something breaks (often LSP-related). The devs don't seem to give a rat's ass about backwards compat…

Maybe you've already heard about it but Helix (https://helix-editor.com/) mostly just works out of the box.

Re: We need more zero config tools

#29

Post by znpy »

mattlondon wrote: post #4

I know this will be unpopular but I try to live a zero-config life. I just live with the defaults 99% of the time. I prefer not to be beholden to some special keyboard map or shell config or that essential plugin that does something very niche that you could simply not live without any more , because what if you do need to live without it? If you ever change machine or do pair programming or whatever where you are no…

I understood this the "hard way" when I lost my highly tweaked emacs config.

Since then I keep a fairly light emacs config which largely revolves around pacakges to install and a few package-specific settings. But I mostly learn and use default emacs keybindings.

That config is published on a publicly available webpage and I can quickly pull it if I'm working with a new machine (happens fairly often).

Re: We need more zero config tools

#30

Post by Mashimo »

I would love it more open source tools and projects would subscribe to the "Easy to learn, hard to master" / sane defaults / zero config approach.

I used to love the photo editor DarkTable. I would spit out very close to camera Jpeg by default, but I could deep dive into some pictures if I wanted to. I don't know what changed, but with every update it just got harder to get something I liked from the pictures. I stopped using it.

I already use fish (with temux) and will take a look at zellij.

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