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Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

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21–30 of 514 posts

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#21

There is no place for the death penalty in a civilized country!

Suppose we lived in a world where it was possible to know someone's guilt or innocence with strictly 100% confidence. Curious to know if your views would change?

Note the cost of incarceration is around ~$70k/year; enough to save lives, house people, heal people, feed people etc if put to other uses.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Furthermore it is highly suspect that he was caught selling the laptop stolen from her house and the story about how he came into it is implausible. Things like “the State destroyed or corrupted the evidence that could conclusively prove his innocence and the available DNA and other forensic crime-scene evidence does not match him” should at the very least make everyone pause and reconsider the course of action. I…

I'm not entrenched in my position, but I would argue that there are cases where the death penalty makes sense. It seems more cruel to lock someone up for the rest of their life with no chance of parole AND denying them the ability to commit suicide. Maybe avoidance of cruelty isn't the point of getting rid of the death penalty, though.

I'm against the death penalty - I do believe there's times it makes sense, and I certainly believe there's crimes worthy of it. But I don't trust the state to make this determination with 100% accuracy - and anything less than 100% means we have to make the choice between not giving the death penalty to those who do deserve it, or executing those who don't deserve it.

It's not unusual to hear stories of people being found innocent after decades in prison - and every single time it hammers home to me that they could have been pardoning a grave.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#24
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was all considered by the state Supreme Court. Due process was invoked and after numerous reviews at every level no court found anything to retry or reverse the case. My personal take - of course he was guilty as unrelated people recounted confessions he made to them that included details that were never made public. And the property findings. Saying that I’m not sure killing people is the greatest thing.

> unrelated people recounted confessions he made to them that included details that were never made public Do you have a source? "The case against Mr. Williams turned on the testimony of two unreliable witnesses who were incentivized by promises of leniency in their own pending criminal cases and reward money. The investigation had gone cold until a jail inmate named Henry Cole, a man with a lengthy record, claimed t…

Literally the Missouri Supreme Court decision and US Supreme Court decision that supports it.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#25
post #11

The prosecutor who wanted to pardon him was not the original prosecutor, but a recent progressive elected one. The original prosecutor still believes he is guilty. Furthermore it is highly suspect that he was caught selling the laptop stolen from her house and the story about how he came into it is implausible. People who are willing to commit murder are often sociopaths and pathological liars. It isn’t surprising he…

I cannot help but wonder if his race had something do with the outcome :( The US Supreme Court denied a stay, with 3 liberal justices saying they would have stopped the execution. Thus my comment.

I haven't read anything about the Supreme Court's decision, but did they dissent on the grounds that they believed he was innocent, or that capital punishment shouldn't be allowed (and not comment on his guilt)?

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#26
post #21

There is no place for the death penalty in a civilized country!

Suppose we lived in a world where it was possible to know someone's guilt or innocence with strictly 100% confidence. Curious to know if your views would change? Note the cost of incarceration is around ~$70k/year; enough to save lives, house people, heal people, feed people etc if put to other uses.

You assume that the laws are flawless. They are not. It is hard to un-kill a person if you realize a law was bogus.

The first law I would introduce would be that the death sentance only applies to people who demanded it publically before.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#27
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>People who are willing to commit murder are often sociopaths and pathological liars Only 27% of them apparently[0], so even murderers are still more likely to not be a psychopath. [0] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S135917891...

[flagged]

Thats an opinion. It could easily be argued the other way around. Murders during burglary has a higher chance of have happened accidentally than other kind of murders. Stealing is more likely to happen because of poverty than psychopathy. Its kinda a useless exercise making up arguments uninformed by reality.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Furthermore it is highly suspect that he was caught selling the laptop stolen from her house and the story about how he came into it is implausible. Things like “the State destroyed or corrupted the evidence that could conclusively prove his innocence and the available DNA and other forensic crime-scene evidence does not match him” should at the very least make everyone pause and reconsider the course of action. I…

I'm not entrenched in my position, but I would argue that there are cases where the death penalty makes sense. It seems more cruel to lock someone up for the rest of their life with no chance of parole AND denying them the ability to commit suicide. Maybe avoidance of cruelty isn't the point of getting rid of the death penalty, though.

If it were up to me it would be in the constitution that everyone has the right to euthanasia and suicide with no conditions. At first i thought it seems like a completely unrelated issue to the death penalty. After thinking about it more maybe you have a point. Society will likely never get over the taboo of enabling suicide so i suppose it can be seen as a lesser moral evil to kill someone rather than subject them to life imprisonment under suicide watch. Interesting moral questions

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#29
post #21

There is no place for the death penalty in a civilized country!

Suppose we lived in a world where it was possible to know someone's guilt or innocence with strictly 100% confidence. Curious to know if your views would change? Note the cost of incarceration is around ~$70k/year; enough to save lives, house people, heal people, feed people etc if put to other uses.

In such a world (which is, by any means likely ever to be available, impossible), we’d still run against the issue that the state has the authority to kill people. This world would also have to be free of political corruption, and be so politically stable that what constitutes a crime worthy of the death penalty could never change.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#30
post #21

There is no place for the death penalty in a civilized country!

Suppose we lived in a world where it was possible to know someone's guilt or innocence with strictly 100% confidence. Curious to know if your views would change? Note the cost of incarceration is around ~$70k/year; enough to save lives, house people, heal people, feed people etc if put to other uses.

If I could fly by flapping my arms, I wouldn't need airplanes.
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