Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Open Source, Trademarks, and WP Engine

automattic.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 53 posts

Re: Open Source, Trademarks, and WP Engine

#21

Post by lightlyused »

nativeit wrote: post #3

I see this kind of thing all the time with third-party WordPress and WooCommerce plugins, it seems like WP Engine managed to generate enough perceived consumer confusion (looking at the exhibits, frequently in the form of support requests from WP Engine customers posted to official WordPress channels), such that Automattic felt compelled to do something about it. That said, from what I can tell, there are dozens of s…

So is the out for wpengine that they aren't enforcing it across the board but using it to "extort" a dollar amount that they perceive that they are owed?

Re: Open Source, Trademarks, and WP Engine

#22

Post by cyral »

handfuloflight wrote: post #2

Your honor, I'd like to enter in Exhibit 0 into the records: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GYPsyoSbwAACO7X?format=jpg&name=... Furthermore, apparently Automattic invested money into WP Engine in 2011? Since the principals of Automattic and the Wordpress Foundation are the same, why did they not call trademark violations then (or negotiate a royalty deal for the use of the marks)? https://techcrunch.com/2011/11/15/silve…

The part that is so weird to me is that Automattic (Matt is the CEO) owns WordPress.com which is a WP Engine competitor. So many people are confused about WordPress.com vs WordPress.org (The WordPress subreddit even has a sticky about it, since so many newbies are unaware that free self hosted WP exists). Matt is saying that the WordPress Foundation (non profit) gives Automattic an exclusive commercial license to use the trademark. So, WP Engine _may_ legally be in the wrong here (despite the trademark policy saying it was okay for a decade) - but his arguments about how WP Engine is ruining WordPress, is misleading customers, and is competing unfairly is so weird considering his own company does exactly the same. I guess his moral argument is that Automattic contributes so much to the WP source code, and other companies need to be doing the same or purchase a license to support it.

His post about WP Engine not being real wordpress because they disable post revisions to save space is also strange, someone on Reddit mentioned WP Engine has been doing that for over 11 years, so it's not something new. (WordPress.com also reduces features unless the user pays for a higher plan) Automattic was an early investor in WP Engine even, and was seemingly fine with this until now?

Re: Open Source, Trademarks, and WP Engine

#23

Post by sharphall »

rstupek wrote: post #18
aimazon wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Matt has a reputation for flying off the handle, a smaller scale Elon Musk. Matt has been trying to get WPE to contribute more to the Wordpress project for years. Last week Matt heard that WPE were pressuring employees to stay silent about WPEs internals and so he flew off the handle and started throwing everything at the wall… thus, the festering resentment towards WPE for their lack of contributions to the project…

Did the page contents actually get changed?

Yes, you can check the wayback machine to see the before version.

Re: Open Source, Trademarks, and WP Engine

#24

Post by cyral »

rstupek wrote: post #18
aimazon wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Matt has a reputation for flying off the handle, a smaller scale Elon Musk. Matt has been trying to get WPE to contribute more to the Wordpress project for years. Last week Matt heard that WPE were pressuring employees to stay silent about WPEs internals and so he flew off the handle and started throwing everything at the wall… thus, the festering resentment towards WPE for their lack of contributions to the project…

Did the page contents actually get changed?

Yes: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GYRDoy8XgAE1CuR?format=jpg&name=...

Re: Open Source, Trademarks, and WP Engine

#25

Post by patrickhogan1 »

racked wrote: post #13
patrickhogan1 wrote: post #9

It’s going to get really spicy in here if the EFF stands up for a private equity company, but this is pretty clearly an important open source issue.

Where did you read about EFF involvement?

They haven't yet, but given the situation, if other open-source foundations, controlled by corporations like Automattic, start acting this way, it sets a dangerous precedent. Open source is like free speech—you can't support free speech and then suddenly claim it's only for you, not for others. Automattic's main argument seems to be, "But they're private equity baddies."

Re: Open Source, Trademarks, and WP Engine

#26

Post by rideontime »

marcellus23 wrote: post #17
sharphall wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For comparison, the text of the screenshotted web page ( https://wordpressfoundation.org/trademark-policy/ ) now reads: > The abbreviation “WP” is not covered by the WordPress trademarks, but please don’t use it in a way that confuses people. For example, many people think WP Engine is “WordPress Engine” and officially associated with WordPress, which it’s not. They have never once even donated to the WordPress Found…

Wow that reads incredibly petty, almost childish. And "billions of revenue"?

Odds that it was written by the CEO himself?

Re: Open Source, Trademarks, and WP Engine

#28

Post by giancarlostoro »

etchalon wrote: post #14

This is one of the the worst corporate shakedowns I've ever had to pretend to care about.

We didn't need more reasons to dislike WordPress, and now they're really working to give us a new reason. At least that's how I feel. I'd much rather just use any other CMS.

Re: Open Source, Trademarks, and WP Engine

#29

Post by [deleted] »

handfuloflight wrote: post #2

Your honor, I'd like to enter in Exhibit 0 into the records: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GYPsyoSbwAACO7X?format=jpg&name=... Furthermore, apparently Automattic invested money into WP Engine in 2011? Since the principals of Automattic and the Wordpress Foundation are the same, why did they not call trademark violations then (or negotiate a royalty deal for the use of the marks)? https://techcrunch.com/2011/11/15/silve…

[deleted]

Re: Open Source, Trademarks, and WP Engine

#30

Post by AnonC »

This whole incident (with the information from texts and posts shared in the “Cease and Desist” letter by WP Engine) makes Matt seem like a disgruntled person who’s after another company because his ego is hurt when his efforts to extort money from it failed. This doesn’t do any good to the reputation of Automattic or WordPress.

If this goes to court, I hope WP Engine wins, not because it’s a good open source participant (it doesn’t seem to be one) but because Matt’s angle here seems to twist facts and history.

On a tangential note, I personally wouldn’t use WP Engine because I think it’s quite expensive compared to similar WordPress hosting offerings from other companies (which in turn could be expensive compared to self-hosting).

Post reply on HN