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Petition to stop extradition of UK hacker

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Re: Petition to stop extradition of UK hacker

#21

Post by nuaccnt »

gouranga wrote: post #9
duiker101 wrote: post #3

This is literally unbelievable. I was shocked when the US attacked Kim Dotcom, but you know... he is a big fish and anyway i hope he will be able to fight back. But this is gone too much further. They are trying to rule the world in this way. This people gained too much power. I am really frightened for our future.

> This people gained too much power. I am really frightened for our future. Agreed entirely. Unfortunately, as history likes to remind us, the only way to resolve these issues is legitimate bloody and violent rebellion. Unfortunately there are too many morons staggering in the dark and too many weapons in the hands of the powerful for this to work any more. However as the balance of power changes, people have nothing…

Yes! / to crush the tyranny / let's find ourself a new Robespierre / a Lenin / a Mao / I mean / what could possibly go wrong?

Re: Petition to stop extradition of UK hacker

#22

Post by [deleted] »

gouranga wrote: post #9
duiker101 wrote: post #3

This is literally unbelievable. I was shocked when the US attacked Kim Dotcom, but you know... he is a big fish and anyway i hope he will be able to fight back. But this is gone too much further. They are trying to rule the world in this way. This people gained too much power. I am really frightened for our future.

> This people gained too much power. I am really frightened for our future. Agreed entirely. Unfortunately, as history likes to remind us, the only way to resolve these issues is legitimate bloody and violent rebellion. Unfortunately there are too many morons staggering in the dark and too many weapons in the hands of the powerful for this to work any more. However as the balance of power changes, people have nothing…

[deleted]

Re: Petition to stop extradition of UK hacker

#23

Post by rlpb »

vladd wrote: post #16
cf0ed2aa-bdf5 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And all that is (or should be) completely irrelevant since we are talking about a British guy hosting a website that not primarily targeted US audience. I am not a lawyer but I am fairly sure O'Dwyer does not have to abide the Digital Millenium Copyright Act. Google, as an American Website, however has to.

According to the Extradition Act 2003 of the UK Parliament [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extradition_Act_2003 , http://www.statewatch.org/news/2003/jul/UK_USA_extradition.p... ], article 2.1, "An offense shall be an extraditable offense if the conduct on which the offense is based is punishable under the laws in both States by deprivation of liberty for a period of one year or more or by a more severe penalty.". I s…

What you say makes sense, assuming that jurisdiction is clearly with the country that is requesting extradition.

What I fail to understand is why the US has jurisdiction here. What brings this crime to the US? If it is just that the US is on the Internet too, then the logical extension would be to pass this guy around every country in the world, which is clearly ridiculous.

He should be answerable to the law. But the UK seems like the appropriate jurisdiction here, not the US. If the problem is that UK law doesn't cover this case, then that is what should be questioned, rather than pretending that the US has jurisdiction in order to work around the rule of law.

Re: Petition to stop extradition of UK hacker

#24

Post by smutticus »

If I host content in the United States that is illegal in Iran does that mean I can be extradited to Iran to face charges?

I hope this kid fights this tooth and nail with good lawyers. He needs good representation as this case has potential to set very important precedents surrounding basic issues of sovereignty and jurisdictional precedence.

Is the US government going to argue that physical location is irrelevant on the internet? Does a crime committed on the internet happen simultaneously in every country? I'm really curious how the US government will present their arguments in this case. And equally curious how much the UK is willing to lose its right of sovereignty.

Re: Petition to stop extradition of UK hacker

#25

Post by rlpb »

Zenst wrote: post #6

This approach has been tried in the past and been ignored sadly. How about the approach of: Whoever runs the DNS aided and abeted the alledged crime. Google is just as guilty by this precedence being set. Sure there are many other overlooked angles, but given the facts i'd say the media industry needs a dressing down and told they are not the law.

> Whoever runs the DNS aided and abeted the alledged crime. Google is just as guilty by this precedence being set.

This would never stand in criminal law. Criminal law cares about intent. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mens_rea

Re: Petition to stop extradition of UK hacker

#26

Post by okamiueru »

Zenst wrote: post #6

This approach has been tried in the past and been ignored sadly. How about the approach of: Whoever runs the DNS aided and abeted the alledged crime. Google is just as guilty by this precedence being set. Sure there are many other overlooked angles, but given the facts i'd say the media industry needs a dressing down and told they are not the law.

> Google is just as guilty by this precedence being set.

I beg to differ. Google might be guilty of this, since google has business in the US. However, as far as I understand, this wasn't illegal in the UK, and as a UK citizen, running a server in the UK, you have to be able to feel safe from prosecution, as long as you follow the laws in your country.

So, I'd say, if anything, google might be guilty, this guy isn't... well, unless you claim that he is guilty according to US laws, but that's just plain silly.

What if I had to be extradited to a different country, where being an atheist is considered a crime?

Re: Petition to stop extradition of UK hacker

#27

Post by gouranga »

nuaccnt wrote: post #21
gouranga wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This people gained too much power. I am really frightened for our future. Agreed entirely. Unfortunately, as history likes to remind us, the only way to resolve these issues is legitimate bloody and violent rebellion. Unfortunately there are too many morons staggering in the dark and too many weapons in the hands of the powerful for this to work any more. However as the balance of power changes, people have nothing…

Yes! / to crush the tyranny / let's find ourself a new Robespierre / a Lenin / a Mao / I mean / what could possibly go wrong?

I'm not suggesting that. The balance of power should remain in the hands of the citizens, not the government.

Have people forgotten that government is centralized servitude, not centralised control.

Re: Petition to stop extradition of UK hacker

#29

Post by icebraining »

gouranga wrote: post #9
duiker101 wrote: post #3

This is literally unbelievable. I was shocked when the US attacked Kim Dotcom, but you know... he is a big fish and anyway i hope he will be able to fight back. But this is gone too much further. They are trying to rule the world in this way. This people gained too much power. I am really frightened for our future.

> This people gained too much power. I am really frightened for our future. Agreed entirely. Unfortunately, as history likes to remind us, the only way to resolve these issues is legitimate bloody and violent rebellion. Unfortunately there are too many morons staggering in the dark and too many weapons in the hands of the powerful for this to work any more. However as the balance of power changes, people have nothing…

As a Portuguese, our history does certainly not show that:

The Carnation Revolution (...) was a military coup started on 25 April 1974, in Lisbon, Portugal, coupled with an unanticipated and extensive campaign of civil resistance. The Portuguese celebrate Freedom Day on 25 April every year, and the day is a national holiday in Portugal.

The name "Carnation Revolution" comes from the fact no shots were fired and when the population started descending the streets to celebrate the end of the dictatorship and war in the colonies, carnation flowers were put on the guns' ends and on the uniforms. These events effectively changed the Portuguese regime from an authoritarian dictatorship (the Estado Novo, or "New State") into a democracy, and produced enormous social, economic, territorial, demographic, and political changes in the country (...)

Although the regime's political police, PIDE, killed four people before surrendering, the revolution was unusual in that the revolutionaries did not use direct violence to achieve their goals. Holding red carnations (cravos in Portuguese), many people joined revolutionary soldiers on the streets of Lisbon, in apparent joy and audible euphoria.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnation_Revolution

Re: Petition to stop extradition of UK hacker

#30

Post by mfieldhouse »

rcgs wrote: post #5
benhalllondon wrote: post #4

Just one fact/opinion to add that is always missed out on the petitions etc: "The case was brought by the US Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency, which claims that the TVShack.net website earned more than $230,000 (£147,000) in advertising revenue before US authorities obtained a warrant and seized the domain name in June 2010." http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-1826680... The guy was earnin…

So does Google. Your point?

Any links on Google to pirated content are an initially unavoidable byproduct of crawling the web. Whereas providing access to pirated content was this guy's core business and value proposition.
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