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Apple Stores’ Army, Long on Loyalty but Short on Pay

nytimes.com

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Re: Apple Stores’ Army, Long on Loyalty but Short on Pay

#21

Post by wallflower »

This story reminds me of my friends who worked for non-profits. It would be a perpetual hamster wheel of recruiting volunteers, organizing events, preparing. All of them were burnt out after two to three years and left. That is typical industry turnover.

Once they left, many were able to find corporate jobs in which they doubled their meager salary. Working for a recognizable non-profit is a filter for someone who works hard (at the entry level, the higher up you go, the more it is about being friends with major donors)

None of them regret it, you believe in the mission and thus you give them part of your youth.

Re: Apple Stores’ Army, Long on Loyalty but Short on Pay

#22

Post by briandear »

jrockway wrote: post #11
briandear wrote: post #7

When you are an input, you will never get rich. Apple store employees are not tricked into the job. They are promised x and they get x. If they don't like it, they can go work for a Microsoft store. Or, they can stop complaining and create something themselves. Apple has created so many jobs, not just at Apple, Inc., but with the entire economy that has developed as a result of their products. Perhaps the NY Times ou…

Your points are worth making, but your tone paints you clearly in the fanboi camp. This line is particularly goofy sounding: "I think that the NY Times is just jealous -- after all, Instagram is worth more." You do know that newspaper articles are written by individuals, right? The CEO of the Times probably didn't even have any idea that such an article was being written.

The CEO doesn't necessarily know about each article, but you know the Times doesn't run a hatchet job on a major corporation without it filtering up to the top floor offices. Story lists are circulated among the executives. When I was a photographer for Reuters and Sipa (1996-2002), I had, on occasion, photos that would find their way up to the executive level before they'd be released. I can specifically remember my photos from Jasper, Texas and the James Bird Jr. murder getting some extra attention before they went out on the wire. Another situation involved a Black Panther protest and KKK counter-protest at the Gary Graham execution in Huntsville, TX.

Executives definitely know what's going on, especially with highly visible targets.

Stories are promoted, killed, "massaged" or delayed for various reasons by the executives. To believe otherwise is naïve.

The Times is losing subscribers, losing profits and you bet your ass that reporters are worried about it -- their jobs depend on the company's survival. Apple is increasing profits, hiring people and they're also non-union. Polar opposite of the NY Times organization. I'm not disputing any of the Times's facts, I am disputing the slant. Instead of addressing the very high youth unemployment among recent college graduates, they instead attack a company that's creating jobs -- without government "stimulus." That scares the typical Times reporters because it goes against their common refrain that government spending is necessary to save the economy.

Apple devices, specifically the iPad have cut into traditional newspaper profits substantially as well. It could be said that the internet killed the newspaper and the iPad is just fast tracking that process. People are consuming more content, but they are paying for it less frequently.

They could have run the same article about McDonalds. Billions in worldwide sales, yet cashiers are making low wages with no 401k, no stock purchase and very modest, if any health coverage. Yet, the take on Apple. What's the motivation? Are employees being abused? No. Are they being paid below market value? No. Are they being denied benefits? No.

What's the story? "Apple employees make less than the executives but more than nearly everyone else in retail." Big f'ing deal.

Re: Apple Stores’ Army, Long on Loyalty but Short on Pay

#23

Post by jiggy2011 »

GigabyteCoin wrote: post #9

This article starts out with a fallacy that immediately made me stop reading: Jordan Golson sold about $750,000 worth of computers and gadgets at the Apple Store in Salem, N.H. No. The ~$3M dollars that apple spends on advertising daily ( http://www.sfgate.com/business/article/Apple-products-guru-m... ) are what put Jordan Golson in the position of seeing $750,000 worth of purchases be made in front of his cash regis…

I'm going to assume that the NYTimes didn't think it's readers were too stupid to figure that out. He was still the person who finalised $750,000 worth of business.

Besides, the most effective marketing apple has is still it's fans and I'm sure Apple store staff have evangelised Apple products plenty outside of work hours too.

Re: Apple Stores’ Army, Long on Loyalty but Short on Pay

#25

Post by encoderer »

GigabyteCoin wrote: post #9

This article starts out with a fallacy that immediately made me stop reading: Jordan Golson sold about $750,000 worth of computers and gadgets at the Apple Store in Salem, N.H. No. The ~$3M dollars that apple spends on advertising daily ( http://www.sfgate.com/business/article/Apple-products-guru-m... ) are what put Jordan Golson in the position of seeing $750,000 worth of purchases be made in front of his cash regis…

I agree completely.

Sales requires a lot of talent and should pay commission. Certainly. But "Specialists" at the Apple store need only to be cordial, competent and informed. While not sales, that does deserve a premium above the wage offered at a fast-food counter, which at $11/hr they are getting.

I do, however, think the jobs should be in the $15-20/hr range not the $10-12/hr. That is the difference between a paycheck and a living wage in a lot of places. And Apple certainly can afford it. I'd look to Whole Foods for an example.

Re: Apple Stores’ Army, Long on Loyalty but Short on Pay

#26

Post by jiggy2011 »

I think the most interesting thing is the mention that a huge number of college grads work at Apple stores. I wonder if this is just due to the economy with more educated people just gravitating to retail in general or whether employment at an Apple store has a prestige that is comparable to a more traditional role for a degree holder?

Re: Apple Stores’ Army, Long on Loyalty but Short on Pay

#27

Post by danso »

I applied to be an Apple Store employee a few years back, when the economy was pretty sour. I got into the group interview with 15 other people...among them, an opera singer, a Harvard masters, a helicopter pilot, and someone recently laid off after 20 yrs in the pharmaceutical industry.

Before people here say, "Apple is doing a lot for people in jobs meant for teenagers", keep in mind that Apple retail employees are of very high stock. And don't kid yourself, if the average Apple employee were as apathetic and unskilled as the average Gap employee, there'd be no way that Apple would be so renowned as a retailer. When you're selling a product that sold itself, you still need good people...as these particular produccts are luxury, and customers have higher demands for service

Re: Apple Stores’ Army, Long on Loyalty but Short on Pay

#28

Post by WalterSear »

angrycoder wrote: post #19
GigabyteCoin wrote: post #9

This article starts out with a fallacy that immediately made me stop reading: Jordan Golson sold about $750,000 worth of computers and gadgets at the Apple Store in Salem, N.H. No. The ~$3M dollars that apple spends on advertising daily ( http://www.sfgate.com/business/article/Apple-products-guru-m... ) are what put Jordan Golson in the position of seeing $750,000 worth of purchases be made in front of his cash regis…

All the money Apple puts into engineering and marketing counts for squat if someone goes into an Apple Store and has to deal with salesperson who is unhelpful or not knowledgeable. Best case you end up with an unhappy customer, worst case you loose a sale or a customer for life. The Apple Store isn't Walmart, the people that work there aren't just cashiers. Hang out in the Apple store for 10 minutes and listen to the…

I have. In both cases I had to leave quickly before while I could still suppress the urge to commit violence.

The only difference was a greater amount of smug condescension in the apple store, and a greater amount of brofest bra' salesmanship in Best Buy.

Re: Apple Stores’ Army, Long on Loyalty but Short on Pay

#29

Post by mhurron »

angrycoder wrote: post #19
GigabyteCoin wrote: post #9

This article starts out with a fallacy that immediately made me stop reading: Jordan Golson sold about $750,000 worth of computers and gadgets at the Apple Store in Salem, N.H. No. The ~$3M dollars that apple spends on advertising daily ( http://www.sfgate.com/business/article/Apple-products-guru-m... ) are what put Jordan Golson in the position of seeing $750,000 worth of purchases be made in front of his cash regis…

All the money Apple puts into engineering and marketing counts for squat if someone goes into an Apple Store and has to deal with salesperson who is unhelpful or not knowledgeable. Best case you end up with an unhappy customer, worst case you loose a sale or a customer for life. The Apple Store isn't Walmart, the people that work there aren't just cashiers. Hang out in the Apple store for 10 minutes and listen to the…

Apple store employees are no different than BestBuy employees when it comes to knowledge level. The help they provide is the same as well, they get the stuff from the back.

If they were knowledgeable, they wouldn't be working at an Apple store.

/Mac user, won't waste my time walking into another Apple Store.

Re: Apple Stores’ Army, Long on Loyalty but Short on Pay

#30

Post by JumpCrisscross »

angrycoder wrote: post #19
GigabyteCoin wrote: post #9

This article starts out with a fallacy that immediately made me stop reading: Jordan Golson sold about $750,000 worth of computers and gadgets at the Apple Store in Salem, N.H. No. The ~$3M dollars that apple spends on advertising daily ( http://www.sfgate.com/business/article/Apple-products-guru-m... ) are what put Jordan Golson in the position of seeing $750,000 worth of purchases be made in front of his cash regis…

All the money Apple puts into engineering and marketing counts for squat if someone goes into an Apple Store and has to deal with salesperson who is unhelpful or not knowledgeable. Best case you end up with an unhappy customer, worst case you loose a sale or a customer for life. The Apple Store isn't Walmart, the people that work there aren't just cashiers. Hang out in the Apple store for 10 minutes and listen to the…

I've come to realise this is a New York thing, but every experience I've had an Apple Stores has been filled with smiley, doltish people who are terrible at honouring appointments on time. I go to the Apple Store when I'm willing to trade sanity for immediacy; otherwise I far prefer ordering online.

The Cupertino and Phoenix Apple Stores I've been to were different, but comparing apples to apples (no pun intended) I've had great retail experiences in other New York stores.

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