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What to do about America's killer cars

economist.com

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Re: What to do about America's killer cars

#21

Post by throwup238 »

khaki54 wrote: post #12
mech975 wrote: post #4

CAFE standards were written in such a way as to encourage large vehicle footprints to work around the requirements of the standards. Motorcycling youtuber fortnine offers a good view on some other aspects of the situation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpuX-5E7xoU

In other words, this problem was caused by a progressive regulation intended to help the environment that had the exact opposite effect intended. They set aggressive targets for MPG that were not able to be reached and still produce a car that people want to drive. Remember the tiny Ford Ranger or Chevy S10? If they were produced today, they would be expected to have a very high MPG, which would require an engine uns…

> In other words, this problem was caused by a progressive regulation intended to help the environment that had the exact opposite effect intended.

It was caused by the legislature undermining progressive regulation. Congress was the one that required the EPA to establish different standards for “non-passenger automobiles” and allow SUVs to classify as light trucks.

It’s the only thing that saved the American car companies from bankruptcy post oil embargo shakeup so now its too entrenched a policy to remove.

Re: What to do about America's killer cars

#22

Post by j-wags »

frogblast wrote: post #16

Given the conclusions in these articles, I'd expect insurance prices for larger vehicles to be substantially higher, because the underwriters have a large incentive to get this right. My own policy has two drivers with a long flawless history, and several vehicles, including a heavy duty pickup truck and a compact crossover. The truck policy prices for bodily injury is 8% higher than the crossover, while property dam…

It may have to do with how liability insurance requirements are quite low - generally a few tens of thousands of dollars. So serious crashes (both those involving small and large vehicles) might easily blow past that, causing insurers to charge about the same amount for both.

Re: What to do about America's killer cars

#23

Post by Spivak »

autoexec wrote: post #6
misun78 wrote: post #3

Let me be the first one to say it - anyone who drives a large pick-up truck for non-commercial reasons is a grade A asshole. SUV drivers aren't that far off, though I sympathize with the game theory element of buying SUVs to protect against other larger cars -- but I would expect you to take accountability and drive slower and safer than smaller cars. These monstrosities are environmentally unfriendly, pedestrian unf…

There are valid non-commercial reasons for having trucks and SUVs, but most of the people I know who have them just like big vehicles. They'll say that when they are driving regular cars it's hard to see what's going on around them because of all the SUVs and trucks on the road and the higher headlights of trucks and cars are blinding. It doesn't seem to bother them that they create those same problems for everyone e…

We're in a prisoner's dilemma situation and folks are acting rationally within it. Trying to blame the individual isn't likely to go anywhere. You can't control other people, only your response and this is what you can do. Without a law that forces coordination so we get back to the good outcome it will keep happening.

Sadly it's politically untenable in most (all?) the US not least of which because people will just buy trucks in other states that allow them.

Re: What to do about America's killer cars

#24

Post by causality0 »

misun78 wrote: post #3

Let me be the first one to say it - anyone who drives a large pick-up truck for non-commercial reasons is a grade A asshole. SUV drivers aren't that far off, though I sympathize with the game theory element of buying SUVs to protect against other larger cars -- but I would expect you to take accountability and drive slower and safer than smaller cars. These monstrosities are environmentally unfriendly, pedestrian unf…

Blame the EPA for forcing vehicles larger and larger using a nonsensical method of calculating efficiency requirements. Companies would be happy to sell compact pickup trucks that got 30mpg but they aren't allowed.

Re: What to do about America's killer cars

#25

Post by misun78 »

danielschonfeld wrote: post #5
misun78 wrote: post #3

Let me be the first one to say it - anyone who drives a large pick-up truck for non-commercial reasons is a grade A asshole. SUV drivers aren't that far off, though I sympathize with the game theory element of buying SUVs to protect against other larger cars -- but I would expect you to take accountability and drive slower and safer than smaller cars. These monstrosities are environmentally unfriendly, pedestrian unf…

Thoughts and prayers are all we have in this country. Nothing will be done about that just as nothing is done about guns or healthcare. Just more thoughts and more prayers.

Unfortunately agree, especially given how much of an influence the auto industry has on our government.

My goal is hence to make enough money to allow my family and I to live in an urban walkable environment. The venn diagram overlap of areas that have a high proportion of large trucks and how livable they are is quite small anyways.

Re: What to do about America's killer cars

#26

Post by mcmcmc »

misun78 wrote: post #3

Let me be the first one to say it - anyone who drives a large pick-up truck for non-commercial reasons is a grade A asshole. SUV drivers aren't that far off, though I sympathize with the game theory element of buying SUVs to protect against other larger cars -- but I would expect you to take accountability and drive slower and safer than smaller cars. These monstrosities are environmentally unfriendly, pedestrian unf…

Yeah, and fuck everyone who lives in the country and has large animals, or anyone who wants to haul a camper or trailer. A subcompact can fit like two bales of hay, surely that’s enough right?

Re: What to do about America's killer cars

#27

Post by misun78 »

mikesickler wrote: post #19
misun78 wrote: post #3

Let me be the first one to say it - anyone who drives a large pick-up truck for non-commercial reasons is a grade A asshole. SUV drivers aren't that far off, though I sympathize with the game theory element of buying SUVs to protect against other larger cars -- but I would expect you to take accountability and drive slower and safer than smaller cars. These monstrosities are environmentally unfriendly, pedestrian unf…

This is a really out of touch take.

You haven't explained why but I can preemptively say it isn't. Go outside the confines of American suburbia/countryside and you will see how out of touch these vehicles are to sustainable and healthy living.

Re: What to do about America's killer cars

#28

Post by lumb63 »

misun78 wrote: post #3

Let me be the first one to say it - anyone who drives a large pick-up truck for non-commercial reasons is a grade A asshole. SUV drivers aren't that far off, though I sympathize with the game theory element of buying SUVs to protect against other larger cars -- but I would expect you to take accountability and drive slower and safer than smaller cars. These monstrosities are environmentally unfriendly, pedestrian unf…

If your goal is to reduce the amount of pickup trucks and SUVs on the road, then you’re going to have to convince people who drive those vehicles to stop. Opening by calling that audience “grade A assholes” is probably not winning anyone over toward your cause. You’d probably have better luck telling them how beneficial it would be for them, those they care about, their community, etc., rather than taking an adversarial tone.

Re: What to do about America's killer cars

#29

Post by nostromo »

We could encourage smaller cars the way much of Europe does: narrower streets, smaller parking spots.

I’ve noticed in cities with tighter roads, like San Francisco and Seattle, these kind of massive trucks and SUVs aren’t popular.

A lot of state and local regulations create minimum sizes for roads and other auto infrastructure that’s simply too big.

Re: What to do about America's killer cars

#30

Post by rootusrootus »

misun78 wrote: post #3

Let me be the first one to say it - anyone who drives a large pick-up truck for non-commercial reasons is a grade A asshole. SUV drivers aren't that far off, though I sympathize with the game theory element of buying SUVs to protect against other larger cars -- but I would expect you to take accountability and drive slower and safer than smaller cars. These monstrosities are environmentally unfriendly, pedestrian unf…

> anyone who drives a large pick-up truck for non-commercial reasons is a grade A asshole

Well damn, I guess I'm a grade A asshole. I thought about getting a smaller truck, but frankly it's safer to tow my travel trailer with a superduty, since the tongue weight is over what a half-ton is typically rated for, so I kinda figured it made me -less- of a grade A asshole.

Fortunately I only drive it a few thousand miles a year, the rest of the time I drive my Tesla, so maybe on most days you won't call me an asshole.

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