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Pour over Coffee Got Good

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Re: Pour over Coffee Got Good

#21

Post by Angostura »

belval wrote: post #18
cainxinth wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That happens in every hobby. There was just a thread on Reddit about cheeky names for people who spend too much on gear. Apparently, mountain bikers call them 007s: 0 skills, 0 style, $7,000 bike.

I think for coffee in particular the GP is missing that a lot of people are buying lattes every other day for 5$+. In a year that's +900$ which is definitely enough to get excellent gear. My mignon grinder and rancilio silvia set me back 1000$, but I have been using them daily for 4 years to make lattes for my partner and I. That's over 2920 lattes at an average of 0.34$ each!

Sure, a bought latte every day is expensive. That doesn’t mean you have to chase the expense with your own spending

Re: Pour over Coffee Got Good

#22

Post by Kirby64 »

matrix87 wrote: post #3

My problem with coffee hobbyism is it's just people constantly trying to upsell each other more expensive gear. I'm not sure why $400 for just a grinder makes sense to some people, people can get computers and phones for that money And there's this general attitude of snobbishness, like you have to spend at least 600 on gear to have a "real espresso". Pretty much r/coffee in a nutshell (r/espresso even worse). And in…

$600 on "real espresso" really is a pretty appropriate bar. It might be a bit lower nowadays thanks to some cheaper offerings, but getting that number below $400 is quite difficult barring used gear, incredible sales, or compromises like using a hand grinder for your grinder.

The alternative is using a pressurized portafilter to simulate espresso, which ends up with a much thinner, much less flavorful espresso shot. Not what should be considered espresso, even if it is a simulacrum.

Re: Pour over Coffee Got Good

#23

Post by yumraj »

hattmall wrote: post #13
matrix87 wrote: post #3

My problem with coffee hobbyism is it's just people constantly trying to upsell each other more expensive gear. I'm not sure why $400 for just a grinder makes sense to some people, people can get computers and phones for that money And there's this general attitude of snobbishness, like you have to spend at least 600 on gear to have a "real espresso". Pretty much r/coffee in a nutshell (r/espresso even worse). And in…

$10 Blade Grinder < $25 high torque blade grinder < $150 burr grinder < $400 coated micro abrasive burr grinder < $6 mortar and pestle

> $6 mortar and pestle

Really? How does one get consistency?

Re: Pour over Coffee Got Good

#24

Post by Kirby64 »

belval wrote: post #18
cainxinth wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That happens in every hobby. There was just a thread on Reddit about cheeky names for people who spend too much on gear. Apparently, mountain bikers call them 007s: 0 skills, 0 style, $7,000 bike.

I think for coffee in particular the GP is missing that a lot of people are buying lattes every other day for 5$+. In a year that's +900$ which is definitely enough to get excellent gear. My mignon grinder and rancilio silvia set me back 1000$, but I have been using them daily for 4 years to make lattes for my partner and I. That's over 2920 lattes at an average of 0.34$ each!

Are you ignoring the cost of coffee and milk? Even modestly priced coffee ($14/12oz) ends with each shot being roughly $0.75 in just ground coffee. No idea what milk costs for you since pricing can be so variable, but in actual raw components you can quickly get above $1 purely in cost of goods. Even easier if you're drinking expensive or special stuff. Expensive coffee truly can have raw material cost exceeding $4/cup, although it would be unusual to use that in a latte.

Re: Pour over Coffee Got Good

#25

Post by Kirby64 »

yifanl wrote: post #11
matrix87 wrote: post #3

My problem with coffee hobbyism is it's just people constantly trying to upsell each other more expensive gear. I'm not sure why $400 for just a grinder makes sense to some people, people can get computers and phones for that money And there's this general attitude of snobbishness, like you have to spend at least 600 on gear to have a "real espresso". Pretty much r/coffee in a nutshell (r/espresso even worse). And in…

I mean, for better or worse, we've accepted pour-overs are the way to go at home. I have a 60 dollar setup that's been great for me for 6 years. I'm sure I could be convinced a 600 dollar setup tastes better and is more convenient and whatever, but I don't care too much when I just need to serve myself and my roommate. But this article is about the cafe setting, where it'd be irresponsible to limit customers based on…

The not-so-secret truth is that espresso isn't an 'upgrade' from pour overs, it's just a fork in the coffee road. They're different beverages altogether. Pour overs/drip/brewed coffee is not necessarily worse, and in many cases can exceed espresso quality depending on the bean and other equipment.

The trap a lot of people get themselves into is thinking they'll "upgrade" to an espresso setup (usually spending $500+ to do so), only to be disappointed compared to their even modestly priced ($60, as you say) pour over.

The absolute peak of pour over setups only really needs to cost maybe $300-400, and most of that is in the grinder. Anything more is essentially a waste. But espresso can easily get you into the $10k+ range with expensive machines, silly grinders, accessories, and more.

Re: Pour over Coffee Got Good

#26

Post by jbverschoor »

yumraj wrote: post #23
hattmall wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$10 Blade Grinder < $25 high torque blade grinder < $150 burr grinder < $400 coated micro abrasive burr grinder < $6 mortar and pestle

> $6 mortar and pestle Really? How does one get consistency?

Eye hand coordination

Re: Pour over Coffee Got Good

#27

Post by Kirby64 »

jbverschoor wrote: post #26
yumraj wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> $6 mortar and pestle Really? How does one get consistency?

Eye hand coordination

Presumably you're joking, but even assuming perfect articulation of a mortar and pestle, the inherent uncertainty with how coffee breaks when cracked is going to lead to inconsistent particle size. The reason burrs actually work for precision is due to the fact that they cut the coffee until it is small enough to exit the burr gap. There's no such restriction on when coffee is finished cutting on a mortar/pestle.

Re: Pour over Coffee Got Good

#28

Post by decafninja »

matrix87 wrote: post #3

My problem with coffee hobbyism is it's just people constantly trying to upsell each other more expensive gear. I'm not sure why $400 for just a grinder makes sense to some people, people can get computers and phones for that money And there's this general attitude of snobbishness, like you have to spend at least 600 on gear to have a "real espresso". Pretty much r/coffee in a nutshell (r/espresso even worse). And in…

I don’t doubt there are people that can recognize subtle differences in the taste of coffee depending on its origins and roasting and brewing.

However that’s not me. I did my best to recognize the “notes of blueberry and molasses” or “floral hints with nutty aftertones”. I can’t.

The most I can tell apart is sour vs. bitter vs. smooth (some snobs would call the last one as “tasteless”).

Nowadays I’ve mostly given up on expensive coffee and usually just get the cheap brew from the newsstand on my commute. My sole indulgence is the bag of Kona I buy every now and then to grind in my $300 grinder and brew on my $400 drip machine - artifacts from when I delved into the hobby.

Re: Pour over Coffee Got Good

#29

Post by fy20 »

yifanl wrote: post #11
matrix87 wrote: post #3

My problem with coffee hobbyism is it's just people constantly trying to upsell each other more expensive gear. I'm not sure why $400 for just a grinder makes sense to some people, people can get computers and phones for that money And there's this general attitude of snobbishness, like you have to spend at least 600 on gear to have a "real espresso". Pretty much r/coffee in a nutshell (r/espresso even worse). And in…

I mean, for better or worse, we've accepted pour-overs are the way to go at home. I have a 60 dollar setup that's been great for me for 6 years. I'm sure I could be convinced a 600 dollar setup tastes better and is more convenient and whatever, but I don't care too much when I just need to serve myself and my roommate. But this article is about the cafe setting, where it'd be irresponsible to limit customers based on…

Or just do as the Italians do, and make coffee in a 30 year old mokapot, using ground coffee bought from a store.

Re: Pour over Coffee Got Good

#30

Post by shaggie76 »

The inventor of the Aeropress believed that over the last century there was a trend towards shorter and shorter brews and that if you left the beans in water for too long it extracted unpleasant sour flavours. I know it's a matter of taste but I'm inclined to agree: I'd rather a faster brew with an Aeropress or an espresso-Americano than a pour-over.

Again, it's a matter of taste, but I was an espresso bar a few weeks ago and had the worst coffee I've had in many years because I decided to wait for pour-over (and they roasted the beans in-house so I assume they were fresh!)

FWIW I had Clover coffee once and I hated it too; maybe I just have bad taste in coffee.

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