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Clearview AI faces $45.6M fine in the Netherlands for 'illegal database of faces

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Re: Clearview AI faces $45.6M fine in the Netherlands for 'illegal database of faces

#21

Post by arlort »

fsndz wrote: post #19
piva00 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the problem is that a private company doing it against data privacy regulations in the EU; collecting personally identifiable information and biometrics is regulated through the GDPR, the article clearly states the issue: > The Dutch agency said that building the database and insufficiently informing people whose images appear in the database amounted to serious breaches of the European Union's General Data Prot…

Okay I get it now, GDPR. But is it bad if it is used to catch criminals ? What's a potential misuse of that technology ? Maybe I watched too much of Person Of Internet...

> What's a potential misuse of that technology ?

Off the top of my head it telling that someone is a criminal when they aren't and ruining their lives

Re: Clearview AI faces $45.6M fine in the Netherlands for 'illegal database of faces

#22

Post by swyx »

piva00 wrote: post #16
fsndz wrote: post #11

Can't the government already do the same using images from identity cards, passports, etc.? Is the problem mainly because it's a private company doing it? I genuinely want to better understand this issue.

Yes, the problem is that a private company doing it against data privacy regulations in the EU; collecting personally identifiable information and biometrics is regulated through the GDPR, the article clearly states the issue: > The Dutch agency said that building the database and insufficiently informing people whose images appear in the database amounted to serious breaches of the European Union's General Data Prot…

> "Clearview AI does not have a place of business in the Netherlands or the EU, it does not have any customers in the Netherlands or the EU, and does not undertake any activities that would otherwise mean it is subject to the GDPR," he said.

what limits do we place on countries randomly being able to make supranational claims like this? do you want every online business checking the passport of their customer? because sure this case is fine but its a pretty dangerous precedent to accept without limits. for all its good intentions, GDPR has also resulted in cookie banner spam on the rest of us.

as with all government power - u may be fine when its used against things you dont like, but try to imagine when its used to against things you do...

Re: Clearview AI faces $45.6M fine in the Netherlands for 'illegal database of faces

#23

Post by slg »

piva00 wrote: post #16
fsndz wrote: post #11

Can't the government already do the same using images from identity cards, passports, etc.? Is the problem mainly because it's a private company doing it? I genuinely want to better understand this issue.

Yes, the problem is that a private company doing it against data privacy regulations in the EU; collecting personally identifiable information and biometrics is regulated through the GDPR, the article clearly states the issue: > The Dutch agency said that building the database and insufficiently informing people whose images appear in the database amounted to serious breaches of the European Union's General Data Prot…

It isn't shocking that an American company would run into issues like this in the EU as it is one of the fundamental differences between American and European society. By and large, Europeans would rather this type of thing be in the hands of the government over a private company while Americans would prefer the reverse.

Re: Clearview AI faces $45.6M fine in the Netherlands for 'illegal database of faces

#24

Post by Mordisquitos »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #18
kiratp wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure you haven't violated the laws of any of the other 190+ countries? sure enough to risk taking another vacation?

Depends on where I'm going. If I go to Saudi Arabia after having called for their leader to be executed on X for his treatment of women, yeah, probably not a good idea to go. If I go to Iran after saying Khamenei deserves a rocket to his mansion, yeah, probably not a good idea to go. If I go to Europe after having run a multi-million dollar scheme affecting European countries by white-labelling services from North Ko…

In addition to the examples you mention, if you become involved in doping at an international competition in which US American athletes were competing, it's probably not a good idea to travel there: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodchenkov_Anti-Doping_Act_of_...

Re: Clearview AI faces $45.6M fine in the Netherlands for 'illegal database of faces

#25

Post by ronsor »

Teever wrote: post #20
kiratp wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure you haven't violated the laws of any of the other 190+ countries? sure enough to risk taking another vacation?

Is it really so unreasonable to expect that countries prosecute people who commit crimes against their citizens with expectation of impunity the next time they visit their country? You're proposing an alternative where people can just commit crimes with no recourse from the victims simply because a border exists somewhere and they commit the crimes on one side of the border. Would you expect it to be reasonable for C…

> Would you expect it to be reasonable for Canadian citizens to be shooting at Americans on the border and it unreasonable for American authorities to arrest them if they came to America?

Physical violence is incomparable to working at a company that did something that would be illegal in a certain jurisdiction. Should the person maintaining Clearview's website be arrested in the EU simply because they work there?

Re: Clearview AI faces $45.6M fine in the Netherlands for 'illegal database of faces

#27

Post by CalRobert »

Teever wrote: post #7
mhitza wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since they don't operate directly in the EU, there is not much else they can do aside from collaborating with other countries DPAs to ban any EU company from integrating with them (per the article currently only companies in the Netherlands are banned). Even the fine itself is a bit problematic because it looks like unenforceable as they don't operate in the EU thus not subject to EU law. However if it were to be dis…

They can also arrest the employees of the company who is breaking their laws the next time they step foot in the EU.

You're getting downvoted, but it's an interesting idea. Violating the GDPR is illegal.

You can break your home country's laws when you go abroad and it's usually OK. You can smoke cannabis when you visit the Netherlands* from Ireland, for instance, and go back home to Ireland without worry.

Violating GDPR is illegal. It's acceptable to arrest people who do things that are against the law. And if, say, I write a lambda that runs hourly and violates the GDPR from my home in California, and then take a holiday to the Netherlands while the lambda is still running, should I be immune from arrest? The offense is still ongoing in that instance.

If we truly take privacy seriously then this should be treated like a crime. If I had something that scammed people in Europe and then holidayed in Europe I'd expect to risk arrest. Or is that somehow less important than violating people's privacy?

* (It's actually technically still illegal but that's a different story). Gedoofd is weird.

Re: Clearview AI faces $45.6M fine in the Netherlands for 'illegal database of faces

#28

Post by htrp »

From the actual article:

>[Clearview Chief Legal Officer] Mulcaire said in his statement that Clearview doesn't fall under EU data protection regulations.

>"Clearview AI does not have a place of business in the Netherlands or the EU, it does not have any customers in the Netherlands or the EU, and does not undertake any activities that would otherwise mean it is subject to the GDPR," he said.

-------------

>The Dutch agency said that building the database and insufficiently informing people whose images appear in the database amounted to serious breaches of the European Union's General Data Protection Regulation, or GDPR.

> "Facial recognition is a highly intrusive technology, that you cannot simply unleash on anyone in the world," DPA chairman Aleid Wolfsen said in a statement.

> "If there is a photo of you on the Internet — and doesn't that apply to all of us? — then you can end up in the database of Clearview and be tracked. This is not a doom scenario from a scary film. Nor is it something that could only be done in China," he said.

-----------------

If you're pulling data from European Citizens from all over the internet, I'd imagine that the EU does get a say (since it's literally data processing of EU citizen data). I'd also expect that the EU could just make one of the other upstream suppliers of Clearview data responsible for enforcement.

Re: Clearview AI faces $45.6M fine in the Netherlands for 'illegal database of faces

#29

Post by Anonbrit »

briandw wrote: post #12

If having a facial recognition system of your citizens is immoral, then maybe the Netherlands government shouldn't have one either? Are the facial recognition systems of the Netherlands auditable? How can anyone be certain that they aren't being abused and used for political persecution?

EU has pretty strong controls on government use of facial recognition (multiple police programs shut down etc) and strong whistle-blower protections to allow people to report them

Re: Clearview AI faces $45.6M fine in the Netherlands for 'illegal database of faces

#30

Post by dvngnt_ »

slg wrote: post #23
piva00 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the problem is that a private company doing it against data privacy regulations in the EU; collecting personally identifiable information and biometrics is regulated through the GDPR, the article clearly states the issue: > The Dutch agency said that building the database and insufficiently informing people whose images appear in the database amounted to serious breaches of the European Union's General Data Prot…

It isn't shocking that an American company would run into issues like this in the EU as it is one of the fundamental differences between American and European society. By and large, Europeans would rather this type of thing be in the hands of the government over a private company while Americans would prefer the reverse.

this falls apart in america when the government just buys the private data.
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