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Pie doesn't need to be original unless you claim it so

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Re: Pie doesn't need to be original unless you claim it so

#21

Post by manuelmoreale »

jacknews wrote: post #10
manuelmoreale wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess that final “except” is the entire point? You do something even if it’s not original or different because it’s fun and good practice for you. Because maybe it is the same recipe with the same ingredients but the end result can still be different. Maybe yours is handwritten and I like your calligraphy, maybe you’re more meticulous and you documented all the steps more in details. It can still be the same recipe…

So these things are the 'what's different'. As a software example, 'ls' but written in rust. There's of course nothing wrong with re-implementing 'ls' in C with all the same patterns, and sure, that could be fun, and maybe even earn a slither of respect, but no-one is going to care about your project as something useful or interesting, quite rightly.

> So these things are the 'what's different'.

If you consider those part of the recipe then I guess yes.

> but no-one is going to care about your project as something useful or interesting, quite rightly.

Which is totally fair and I think part of the article argues that there are situations where that's absolutely fine.

Re: Pie doesn't need to be original unless you claim it so

#22

Post by jp57 »

As others have mentioned, a pie is consumable, and thus a good one has value even if it isn't original.

But a slight change to the original scenario makes asking about originality much more reasonable:

Imagine you write a peach pie recipe over the weekend, and you give a copy of the recipe to your friend. They respond:

"Wait, how is this different from every other peach pie recipe that's ever been written? It seems really similar to another recipe I have."

That's not an unreasonable answer.

When I was in a band, one of the most valuable things my songwriting friends and I did for each other was tell each other when our work sounded like something that was already out there.

If you make a new piece of software and offer it to a friend to use, it's not unreasonable for them to ask how it's different from something that's out there already.

Re: Pie doesn't need to be original unless you claim it so

#23

Post by wolframhempel »

Aside from duplication there's also competition. If you bake for your family, your pie will be appreciated, regardless of its novelty. But if your pie is meant to go onto a supermarket shelf alongside other pies, you need to give the consumer an incentive to choose yours - by making it better and/or different.

Re: Pie doesn't need to be original unless you claim it so

#24

Post by krisoft »

apeescape wrote: post #14

I mean, recreational programming and creating a side project for fun is nice and all, but a peach pie is something you can consume and is thus of interest to anyone who likes peach pies, whereas software that does nothing differently or better than the existing (well-known) solutions is just, well, not interesting to anybody else than the person who wrote it. Kudos to you for writing a generic TODO app, but why shoul…

> software that does nothing differently or better than the existing (well-known) solutions is just, well, not interesting to anybody else than the person who wrote it.

There can be many reasons. The practical availability or licensing of the work is the most common one. It is great that google has an amazing implementation of whatever state of the art algorithm. It is not much use to anybody else if they can't read the code, or can't build on it.

The other practical reason is that people building the thing are building their mastery. You are not going to wake up one day and make a state of the art contribution on your first try. You need to build up your skills to it through a series of steps. This would matter even if all software ever written would be equally available and unencumbered for everyone. But if you want people to push the boundaries of what possible they have to get there first.

Do you want someone to be able to bake a beautifully decorated 3 tier wedding cake? That journey starts with them baking a simple sponge cake. Then learning how to put icing on that. Then learning how to make a good cream filling. Then putting simple decoration on. And so on and so on. If you don't let them progress through all these steps and you demand that they bake 3 layer beautifully decorated cakes on their first day then increasingly less and less people will be able to push the state of the art.

Re: Pie doesn't need to be original unless you claim it so

#25

Post by drewcoo »

jp57 wrote: post #22

As others have mentioned, a pie is consumable, and thus a good one has value even if it isn't original. But a slight change to the original scenario makes asking about originality much more reasonable: Imagine you write a peach pie recipe over the weekend, and you give a copy of the recipe to your friend. They respond: "Wait, how is this different from every other peach pie recipe that's ever been written? It seems r…

> "Wait, how is this different from every other peach pie recipe that's ever been written? It seems really similar to another recipe I have."

> That's not an unreasonable answer.

Pies are not supposed to be unique. Recipes are freely traded. That "friend" is an a-hole.

Re: Pie doesn't need to be original unless you claim it so

#26

Post by jihiggins »

drewcoo wrote: post #25
jp57 wrote: post #22

As others have mentioned, a pie is consumable, and thus a good one has value even if it isn't original. But a slight change to the original scenario makes asking about originality much more reasonable: Imagine you write a peach pie recipe over the weekend, and you give a copy of the recipe to your friend. They respond: "Wait, how is this different from every other peach pie recipe that's ever been written? It seems r…

> "Wait, how is this different from every other peach pie recipe that's ever been written? It seems really similar to another recipe I have." > That's not an unreasonable answer. Pies are not supposed to be unique. Recipes are freely traded. That "friend" is an a-hole.

imo, only if it's asked in bad faith. maybe that's just worded poorly, but e.g. "oh, thanks! what'd you do differently with this recipe?" or w/e

Re: Pie doesn't need to be original unless you claim it so

#28

Post by jajko »

drewcoo wrote: post #25
jp57 wrote: post #22

As others have mentioned, a pie is consumable, and thus a good one has value even if it isn't original. But a slight change to the original scenario makes asking about originality much more reasonable: Imagine you write a peach pie recipe over the weekend, and you give a copy of the recipe to your friend. They respond: "Wait, how is this different from every other peach pie recipe that's ever been written? It seems r…

> "Wait, how is this different from every other peach pie recipe that's ever been written? It seems really similar to another recipe I have." > That's not an unreasonable answer. Pies are not supposed to be unique. Recipes are freely traded. That "friend" is an a-hole.

Indeed if that's the response, you either have an acquaintance with 0 emotional intelligence that is by default like an elephant in porcelain shop in relationships, probably move on since its a lifelong effort to even just sustain such friendship.

Or its an envious a-hole since such message is clearly denigrating, still lacks basic emotional intelligence, and then just run and don't look back. If I ever saw 2 women commenting each other's efforts like that, there would be a fight soon or at least lifelong hate would have firmly started.

Normal response is for example a mix of appreciation of effort, curiosity about uniqueness and methodology, other recipes, etc. One can chip in other attempts and compare, that's how mankind lived till now and its considered normal human interaction (TM).

Bad relationships are much worse than no relationships, be it friends or romantic type. Many folks are very afraid of loneliness, but there is strength in it with right mindset for everybody (us introverts thrive in loneliness just sparingly sprinkled with quality human interactions, but others consider it daunting to the point of preferring serious harm)

Re: Pie doesn't need to be original unless you claim it so

#29

Post by thro2309 »

> The friend has assumed that your goal is to "efficiently" reach the goal of a delicious pie, or perhaps even to create a new kind of pie. But that's not the goal at all!

> Baking a pie is a creative act. It's personal, it's inherently delightful, it's an act of caring for others. It's also a craft that one can improve at over time. Just buying the "best" pie would defeat the point.

Not sure author realises the irony here. Creating "the pie" is not art. It is not even craft. It is baking ingredients, and people did that bazilions times before.

Re: Pie doesn't need to be original unless you claim it so

#30

Post by mistercow »

drewcoo wrote: post #25
jp57 wrote: post #22

As others have mentioned, a pie is consumable, and thus a good one has value even if it isn't original. But a slight change to the original scenario makes asking about originality much more reasonable: Imagine you write a peach pie recipe over the weekend, and you give a copy of the recipe to your friend. They respond: "Wait, how is this different from every other peach pie recipe that's ever been written? It seems r…

> "Wait, how is this different from every other peach pie recipe that's ever been written? It seems really similar to another recipe I have." > That's not an unreasonable answer. Pies are not supposed to be unique. Recipes are freely traded. That "friend" is an a-hole.

Also the analogy just really breaks at the seam we’re examining because a reasonable and obvious answer would be “I like the pies you get from this one”, which isn’t a great answer if you’re talking about software. And recipes are a lot simpler than software, so your friend could just look at the two recipes and quickly see how they’re different.
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