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No "Hello", No "Quick Call", and No Meetings Without an Agenda

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Re: No "Hello", No "Quick Call", and No Meetings Without an Agenda

#21

Post by wccrawford »

cryptoboy2283 wrote: post #2

The level of entitlement in this post is ridiculous. Dude. You're just an engineer from an Engineering department of some company. Nobody's gonna read & apply any special rules of communnicating with you, especially written by yourself (sic!)

I think what you're missing is that this isn't just this person's preferences. These are things that bother many, many engineers and don't provide any value compared to the alternative.

Good etiquette isn't common sense, and that's why there are books written about it for centuries.

Re: No "Hello", No "Quick Call", and No Meetings Without an Agenda

#24

Post by jstimpfle »

simonmysun wrote: post #17
puttycat wrote: post #3

> A call is more distracting than a chat message. I highly disagree. A call has a definite start and end. Async chats leave an open thread in your mind that needs to be constantly polled and interrupt flow much more than a call.

I believe the author means "quick call"s. They are not against scheduled calls.

Below a certain threshold, "quick calls" are the best thing to do.

Some of the most inspiring discussions come from someone bringing up an issue they have right there and then. Good discussions often start from something that doesn't seem so important, that doesn't have a clear outline from the start.

If there isn't the possibility to start a discussion instantly once in a little while, there is a good chance it won't ever happen.

Re: No "Hello", No "Quick Call", and No Meetings Without an Agenda

#25

Post by Leynos »

ckastner wrote: post #8

For larger enterprises with complex org charts, I consider an agenda one of two invaluable tools for meetings, the other being post-meeting minutes including a RACI chart. If someone can't think up a few bullet points for a meeting in advance, that person has not prepared for their meeting, and will waste some of the participant's time. Not creating (one-line) minutes that most importantly include decisions that have…

This is good advice.

I hadn't thought to use a RACI chart in this way, but as you describe it, it seems like the most obvious application.

Re: No "Hello", No "Quick Call", and No Meetings Without an Agenda

#27

Post by albert_e »

There are valid arguments here so I broadly agree with where the author is getting at.

But some points are a stretch and that weakens the whole argument.

Point 3.1 : you waste HOURS of time debugging the wrong piece of code -- going off on a quest based on just one single chat message with incomplete info (and not even a stack trace as you deem it so essential yourself)? You don't ask any clarifying questions to validate your assumptions before sinking hours into work? Is that not your fault instead?

Point 4: so you want a whole IT support ticket (with attachments and priority classification if IM allows it) in a single chat message?

Why are you accepting support requests on chat instead of via a ticketing tool that keeps track of request volumes, history, SLAs etc.

If your workplace doesn't care about this level of productivity management and efficiency anyway -- why bother with these rules of engagement.

Also when someone pings you about an issue ... there is a chance you already know about an outage/issue and are working on it...and might just say "I know, fix is on the way by EoD, sit tight." If so... the whole stack trace and explanation of the problem scenario, what they have tried etc is all useless waste. They are just trying to optimize THEIR productivity by pinging you first instead. Two people can play this game.

Re: No "Hello", No "Quick Call", and No Meetings Without an Agenda

#28

Post by widowlark »

Most of the time, im letting YOU know that the product or service YOU own is not working. Its a courtesy. If I have to jump through this many hoops to tell you that, ill just let it continue to fail until someone more important than me has a problem. Then ill point them to you.

Re: No "Hello", No "Quick Call", and No Meetings Without an Agenda

#29

Post by rethab »

We cannot forget that we also loose something with working remotely (say more than 75% of the time) and that is the occasional bumping into each other at the water cooler or in the morning when coming in. These are situations you can artificially create by scheduling calls to socialize etc, but that is still not comparable with being in an actual office.

By categorically saying no to quick calls, you're isolating yourself even more. While it can be distracting to jump on a call while you actually meant to focus on some coding, it can also be great to have a quick chat and brainstorm about an idea rather than let the other person work out the solution in isolation only for me to then suggest a totally different approach in the PR review (yay! asynchronous!).

Re: No "Hello", No "Quick Call", and No Meetings Without an Agenda

#30

Post by prmoustache »

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #4

I get the sentiment, but also, for many the work place is a socialization hub. And what OP argue about is a direct consequence of that: small talks, serendipity, politness rules, etc. If you want raw efficiency, the article makes sense. However, in most orgs, that's not what most workers want.

> I get the sentiment, but also, for many the work place is a socialization hub.

> And what OP argue about is a direct consequence of that: small talks, serendipity, politness rules, etc.

You can do that while following the same rules of politeness and small talks.

For instance I had a colleague who used to put "Hi" or "Good morning" messages several times a day on my teams chat.

He could be as polite saying and include small talk in a single message:

" Good morning prmoustache, do you have some time to help me on project BLABLABLA, I need assistance regarding setup of FOO in a BAR context. Mr John Doe told me you had experience with that. Here are the errors I get.

If you have some time now we can maybe do a quick call, otherwise can I schedule some time?

By the way, how is the weather in Spain today? Did you enjoy some nice time on the beach with your daughters? "

This is polite, include all the info I would need, some small talk, would give me an idea on how much time I might need to dedicate to that to give assistance, if I have to check some info in my note/wiki/whatever and either decide to stop what I am doing now and help him immediately or ask him to schedule a meeting later during the day or week. And maybe I have the exact solution and I can point him a link that will help him directly.

People who usually don't go straight to the point either do it:

- for cultural reasons

- by ignorance on how to work effectively with remote worker

- or because they want to brute force their way into you.

- a combination of all 3

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