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Supporting game design with evolutionary algorithms

gamedeveloper.com

21–30 of 63 posts

Re: Supporting game design with evolutionary algorithms

#21
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suppose you wanted to rebalance the rules of chess so that the black pieces had equal odds. You really only need to achieve this at the superhuman skill level, and then you could let the matchmaking algorithm could do the rest of the work.

Not a great example. Chess is a 1v1 symmetric game and is pretty well balanced.

white moves first, in any perfect game black can only play to a draw

Re: Supporting game design with evolutionary algorithms

#22
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a great example. Chess is a 1v1 symmetric game and is pretty well balanced.

white moves first, in any perfect game black can only play to a draw

> in any perfect game black can only play to a draw

You’re making this up. Chess is not solved.

It’s also largely irrelevant to my point.

Re: Supporting game design with evolutionary algorithms

#24

Programmers always want to automate content creation. I get it as I’m a coder and it’s a fun problem space. Plus creating content is super time and skill intensive. It’s really hard to get right in my experience. Kind of like trying to automate writing a novel… OK I read the article. I'm very skeptical of this approach. I doubt we can actually uncover fitness functions that reliably maps to "fun", and I believe it wo…

[deleted]

Re: Supporting game design with evolutionary algorithms

#25
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Kind of like trying to automate writing a novel… So you are saying procedural level design could be solved with generative AI?

In theory. It'll be more convincing once generative AI proves itself useful for writing novels.

AI can already write short stories, just not very good ones. It'll be doing novels once the context windows are big enough.

Re: Supporting game design with evolutionary algorithms

#26
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a great example. Chess is a 1v1 symmetric game and is pretty well balanced.

white moves first, in any perfect game black can only play to a draw

You can construct counterexamples too! For example, "on your turn, say a number. First player to say a number that is double a number the other player said, wins." Is a perfect (I think you mean perfect information) game.

Re: Supporting game design with evolutionary algorithms

#27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Programmers always want to automate content creation We have a god complex that brain surgeons can only envy. How many universes have they built?

I suspect everyone on HN started out wanting to build COOL WORLDS as a kid!

I still do :)

Re: Supporting game design with evolutionary algorithms

#28
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

white moves first, in any perfect game black can only play to a draw

You can construct counterexamples too! For example, "on your turn, say a number. First player to say a number that is double a number the other player said, wins." Is a perfect (I think you mean perfect information) game.

He meant perfect play although he is not provably correct

Re: Supporting game design with evolutionary algorithms

#29
post #2

Seems unlikely to work imo. Games need to account for the fact that 90% of the player base will be deeply unskilled and the remaining 10% will be tightly invested in a meta of dominant strategies. You’d need the bots to be able to consider this and also not just equalize every character.

I found that to design games for the crowd seperatly and merge them, works wonders. One crowd gets a hyper-challenging rts, the others get to play heroe units making all the difference in a small dota game, playing off the the hyper-rts. The OPs can take over and micro, but they wont never micro as well as a human, for whom it is the whole game.

One example.. of course, you goto keep it civil. No pro players dunking on the mom&pop gamers who just want to have 5mins of fun on a tablet.

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