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Entropic Engineering DEFCON 32 Statement

entropicengineering.com

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Re: Entropic Engineering DEFCON 32 Statement

#21

Post by wkat4242 »

bravetraveler wrote: post #20
tptacek wrote: post #3

I regret that I have only two eyes to roll at this: We are especially grateful that Dmitry was not hurt in the physical removal he was subjected to as a result of his demonstration of solidarity. We want to extend our thanks to all attendees who have been asking questions, reaching out, attending surprise side-walk cons, displaying the about page badge on the con floor, and, especially, keeping a community eye on law…

Just here to point out that security is generally made of random goobers volunteering for shirts, and other things.

Not sure about this event but in Europe you have to hire a professional security company. I've been involved in organising a computer event and we simply wouldn't get a permit without it. Volunteers doing security is a big NO. Parking assistance (guiding), first aid, entrance checks etc yes. But if someone doesn't comply you get the real guys. And it makes sense. At one camp we had a drugged up visitor going ballistic and attacking security with a big stick when he was asked to leave. They disarmed him with ease. A volunteer would likely have fared catastrophically. Also, these guys have legal protection in case an assailant countersues. You can't put your volunteers in that position.

I assume considering the size of Def Con the same applies.

Re: Entropic Engineering DEFCON 32 Statement

#22

Post by _7tgr »

tptacek wrote: post #5
doctorpangloss wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’d feel different if it were you getting stiffed payment! After reading the further responses, I am convinced that DEF CON is kind of a crummy business. This commenter, who does not deserve to be downvoted, and the vendor were both stiffed by DEF CON. There seems to be a lot of drama attached to this organization that unfairly rubs off on its well meaning collaborators. In the interest of curiosity, I wonder why I…

Who, Dmitry? Dmitry had no arrangement with DEF CON. Entropic? I've been (I think!) where Entropic has been many times , and you've never read about any of them because, like most professionals, I didn't make a huge stink about it.

This does not seem like a standard way to conduct business to me by any stretch of the imagination, though I don't work in cybersecurity. Perhaps that community just has lower standards to which people and organizations are held. Would not be surprised. The things I've heard from that corner of the industry....

Re: Entropic Engineering DEFCON 32 Statement

#23

Post by tillulen »

numpad0 wrote: post #16

Do this look like someone mistook budget allotted by a magnitude, or was too scared to speak up until it's too late and situation had to be escalated to (no offense)an adult to initiate shutdown?

It looks like a case of managerial miscommunication. Entropic seems to have expected that sending emails with higher budget estimates would give DEFCON the opportunity to say no if they did not agree, and took the lack of response as a sign of DEFCON’s agreement to the new budget. DEFCON seems to have either not read or ignored those emails and expected Entropic to work within the originally agreed-upon budget.

Re: Entropic Engineering DEFCON 32 Statement

#24

Post by waihtis »

tptacek wrote: post #3

I regret that I have only two eyes to roll at this: We are especially grateful that Dmitry was not hurt in the physical removal he was subjected to as a result of his demonstration of solidarity. We want to extend our thanks to all attendees who have been asking questions, reaching out, attending surprise side-walk cons, displaying the about page badge on the con floor, and, especially, keeping a community eye on law…

That and this response is filled with appeals to emotion, but extremely thin on any actual details on the contract.

I dont know the company but this statement makes them sound like a bunch of amateurs, and I’m now inclined to believe Defcons statement on what actually happened.

Re: Entropic Engineering DEFCON 32 Statement

#26

Post by gizmo686 »

tillulen wrote: post #23
numpad0 wrote: post #16

Do this look like someone mistook budget allotted by a magnitude, or was too scared to speak up until it's too late and situation had to be escalated to (no offense)an adult to initiate shutdown?

It looks like a case of managerial miscommunication. Entropic seems to have expected that sending emails with higher budget estimates would give DEFCON the opportunity to say no if they did not agree, and took the lack of response as a sign of DEFCON’s agreement to the new budget. DEFCON seems to have either not read or ignored those emails and expected Entropic to work within the originally agreed-upon budget.

What higher budget estimates?

According to the (admittadly biased) article, Entropic ate all of the cost overruns:

> Once a month, we billed for our work and submitted an updated estimated per badge final cost - committing as costs built to discount our work as necessary in order to hit DEFCON’s per unit cost targets.

Re: Entropic Engineering DEFCON 32 Statement

#27

Post by gizmo686 »

doctorpangloss wrote: post #4
tptacek wrote: post #3

I regret that I have only two eyes to roll at this: We are especially grateful that Dmitry was not hurt in the physical removal he was subjected to as a result of his demonstration of solidarity. We want to extend our thanks to all attendees who have been asking questions, reaching out, attending surprise side-walk cons, displaying the about page badge on the con floor, and, especially, keeping a community eye on law…

You’d feel different if it were you getting stiffed payment! After reading the further responses, I am convinced that DEF CON is kind of a crummy business. This commenter, who does not deserve to be downvoted, and the vendor were both stiffed by DEF CON. There seems to be a lot of drama attached to this organization that unfairly rubs off on its well meaning collaborators. In the interest of curiosity, I wonder why I…

> You’d feel different if it were you getting stiffed payment!

What? Getting stiffed payments is probably the leading cause of "vendors with a contract dispute".

Go to your lawyer (you do have a laywer, right?) and have them nicely ask for the money before starting a lawsuit for it plus the contractually specified penalties.

Unlike a lot of non-paying customers, DEFCON probably has money, so you can rest relatively easy knowing you will see it (plus penalties) eventually. If DEFCON was planning on spending that money someplace else, that is their problem, not yours.

Re: Entropic Engineering DEFCON 32 Statement

#28

Post by nubinetwork »

commercialnix wrote: post #25

[flagged]

> Even I, as a gay half-Asian Muslim, not that any of that should matter, feel this needs to be pointed out: How is it not racist and sexist?

Because if you're not very publicly and loudly checking off all the DEI boxes, you're just hiring a bunch of white cisgender heterosexual men. This isn't just defcon, this is how every company acts these days.

Re: Entropic Engineering DEFCON 32 Statement

#29

Post by kalleboo »

metadat wrote: post #9

I'm struggling to reconcile this response vs the Bitcoin address "Easter egg" and the other claims in the prior article ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41211519 ), and a few other aspects. Such a gross "oversight" does not reflect the care they're claiming to have exercised. This part also seems a tad over the top and dramatic: > We are especially grateful that Dmitry was not hurt in the physical removal he wa…

The software developer who added the Easter egg was not employed or paid by EE, just sympathetic to them

Re: Entropic Engineering DEFCON 32 Statement

#30

Post by fortran77 »

_7tgr wrote: post #22
tptacek wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who, Dmitry? Dmitry had no arrangement with DEF CON. Entropic? I've been (I think!) where Entropic has been many times , and you've never read about any of them because, like most professionals, I didn't make a huge stink about it.

This does not seem like a standard way to conduct business to me by any stretch of the imagination, though I don't work in cybersecurity. Perhaps that community just has lower standards to which people and organizations are held. Would not be surprised. The things I've heard from that corner of the industry....

DEFCON has a lot of young, inexperienced people. That leads to a magnification of all sorts of drama. (I've been to 12 DEFCONs, sat it out this year.)
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