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Mozilla wants you to love Firefox again

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Re: Mozilla wants you to love Firefox again

#21

Post by pennybanks »

danpalmer wrote: post #12

I used to be a die-hard Firefox user, but over the last 15 years software quality has improved, expectations have been raised, and I haven't felt that Firefox has kept up. It still feels like it's a re-skinned 2005 era piece of software. Placing it next to Safari, Chrome, or more recent competitors like Arc, it feels dated. There are technical reasons for this, there are process/political/human reasons why it has sta…

theres no point in having sentimental attachment to a browser. back then it was just dominated by a few, its the only reason you used it.

you couldnt care less to switch cause were lazy. very funny thing computer people do is have such brand loyalty over a browser.

and we turn around and laugh at coke people, ford people, xbox, how silly is it when you hear people arguing about xbox or ps. this is no doubt even sillier

and as a bonus the only reason we say oh firefox has gone downhill but lol ill never use chrome and let them take my freedom and joy never ever... this is again just brand loyalty lol.... if you dont like firefox just switch, if you dont like that switch, if you dont like any browers... well you just have to choose and live with one then dont you. trust me google has all your info

so does apple depending on your phone. and trust that your phone will be your id, wallet, everything very soon. ask asia, we are always lagging in tech, it will happen (ofc this isnt directed at you. im just talking sht outloud)

Re: Mozilla wants you to love Firefox again

#22

Post by dtx1 »

sltkr wrote: post #18

Mozilla wastes all its money on its CEO and bullshit DEI programs, while neglecting to develop Firefox, their flagship product. When they spend some money on the browser, they use it to implement user-hostile garbage like Facebook's client-side tracking bullshit. Here's a cute graph of CEO pay vs Firefox market share: https://calpaterson.com/assets/mozilla-boss-pay.svg Mozilla is completely fucked. I just hope the co…

[flagged]

Re: Mozilla wants you to love Firefox again

#23

Post by alberth »

dtx1 wrote: post #20
alberth wrote: post #19

Dumb question: who’s Firefox target user? Chrome is able to capture the mass consumer market, due to Google’s dark pattern to nag you to install Chrome anytime you’re on a Google property. Edge target enterprise Fortune 500 user, who is required to use Microsoft/Office 365 at work (and its deep security permission ties to SharePoint). Safari has Mac/iOS audience via being the default on those platform. Brave (based o…

> So what target user is left for a Firefox? Google, so they can pretend they don't have a monopoly so the antitrust lawsuits are kept at bay. And Mozillas CEO[0] so they can extract millions while fucking us all. [0] https://itdm.com/wp-content/uploads/Mozilla.png

That is such a weird graph, because it doesn’t show Mozilla revenue.

On that same timescale, Mozilla revenue went from:

  2009:   ~80M
  2019: ~$800M
That’s a 10x increase in revenue, for an organization already at scale.

It’s totally expected that a CEO of a company generating ~$1B revenue, would be making $2.5M. Heck, there’s FANNG individual contributors who earn that much.

I’ve clearly never understood the gripe in Mozilla CEO pay. Because how are you going to attract top talent to run an organization that big if you paid any less?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Corporation

Re: Mozilla wants you to love Firefox again

#24

Post by dtx1 »

alberth wrote: post #23
dtx1 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So what target user is left for a Firefox? Google, so they can pretend they don't have a monopoly so the antitrust lawsuits are kept at bay. And Mozillas CEO[0] so they can extract millions while fucking us all. [0] https://itdm.com/wp-content/uploads/Mozilla.png

That is such a weird graph, because it doesn’t show Mozilla revenue. On that same timescale, Mozilla revenue went from: 2009: ~80M 2019: ~$800M That’s a 10x increase in revenue, for an organization already at scale. It’s totally expected that a CEO of a company generating ~$1B revenue, would be making $2.5M. Heck, there’s FANNG individual contributors who earn that much. I’ve clearly never understood the gripe in Moz…

That would almost be a good argument but the reality is that they cannibalized their core product to increase their revenue but have done so to the point where it no longer remains viable in the market. Alas, the locusts have had their feast and we are all worse of for it.

Re: Mozilla wants you to love Firefox again

#25

Post by sdf4j »

alberth wrote: post #19

Dumb question: who’s Firefox target user? Chrome is able to capture the mass consumer market, due to Google’s dark pattern to nag you to install Chrome anytime you’re on a Google property. Edge target enterprise Fortune 500 user, who is required to use Microsoft/Office 365 at work (and its deep security permission ties to SharePoint). Safari has Mac/iOS audience via being the default on those platform. Brave (based o…

I value my privacy and use Firefox. Honestly, I have trust issues with volatile “security focused” forks. I feel the risk of them been tampered are greater than the marginal gains.

Re: Mozilla wants you to love Firefox again

#26

Post by alberth »

dtx1 wrote: post #24
alberth wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is such a weird graph, because it doesn’t show Mozilla revenue. On that same timescale, Mozilla revenue went from: 2009: ~80M 2019: ~$800M That’s a 10x increase in revenue, for an organization already at scale. It’s totally expected that a CEO of a company generating ~$1B revenue, would be making $2.5M. Heck, there’s FANNG individual contributors who earn that much. I’ve clearly never understood the gripe in Moz…

That would almost be a good argument but the reality is that they cannibalized their core product to increase their revenue but have done so to the point where it no longer remains viable in the market. Alas, the locusts have had their feast and we are all worse of for it.

So in hindsight, if you were CEO of Mozilla - what would you have done differently that you believe would have maintained Firefox market share?

——

I think diehard Firefox fans don’t understand that, no matter how great you make Firefox - it will always lose share to better distribution.

Google had the best distribution because it was the vast majority of consumers homepage. And on the homepage, it was nagging users to install chrome.

Distribution > Better Product

Re: Mozilla wants you to love Firefox again

#28

Post by sltkr »

alberth wrote: post #26
dtx1 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would almost be a good argument but the reality is that they cannibalized their core product to increase their revenue but have done so to the point where it no longer remains viable in the market. Alas, the locusts have had their feast and we are all worse of for it.

So in hindsight, if you were CEO of Mozilla - what would you have done differently that you believe would have maintained Firefox market share? —— I think diehard Firefox fans don’t understand that, no matter how great you make Firefox - it will always lose share to better distribution. Google had the best distribution because it was the vast majority of consumers homepage. And on the homepage, it was nagging users t…

If I were CEO of Mozilla I would have also killed the core product by implementing Facebook's user tracking shit and making Google the default search engine just so I can rake in something like $10 million personally.

Then I'd retire and start an open-source project to develop a good open-source browser that puts user's interests first.

The problem is the CEO of Mozilla doesn't do the second part.

Re: Mozilla wants you to love Firefox again

#29

Post by mediumsmart »

PenguinCoder wrote: post #15
dtx1 wrote: post #11

[flagged]

> we lost Firefox I agree, and am looking for other alternatives, that aren't chromium based; but not finding any modern browsers that fit that bill. So I still use Firefox. Any recommendations?

Only for macOS. Orion a zero telemetry browser.

https://kagi.com/orion/

Re: Mozilla wants you to love Firefox again

#30

Post by dehrmann »

dtx1 wrote: post #24
alberth wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is such a weird graph, because it doesn’t show Mozilla revenue. On that same timescale, Mozilla revenue went from: 2009: ~80M 2019: ~$800M That’s a 10x increase in revenue, for an organization already at scale. It’s totally expected that a CEO of a company generating ~$1B revenue, would be making $2.5M. Heck, there’s FANNG individual contributors who earn that much. I’ve clearly never understood the gripe in Moz…

That would almost be a good argument but the reality is that they cannibalized their core product to increase their revenue but have done so to the point where it no longer remains viable in the market. Alas, the locusts have had their feast and we are all worse of for it.

I'm a Firefox use, and while I agree Mozilla neglected it, I think leadership saw the writing on the wall that they're at best the #4 player after Chrome, Safari, and Edge, and they decided to branch out in search of new lines of business. It turns out there isn't a story there (and probably never was--this was a desperation move), and now they're left with Firefox in an even worse state.
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