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Creativity fundamentally comes from memorization?

shwin.co

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Re: Creativity fundamentally comes from memorization?

#21
post #13

It’s not memorizing, it’s actually knowing and understanding the utility of different concepts. When you learn of a problem in a new field, you go through your bucket of tools and modify one to fit the new problem.

Thanks for reading!

Isn't learning which tools in the bucket fits the a problem best just memorizing a heuristic?

That's the point I'm attempting to make, that it's not blind memorization without context, but still memorization of a heuristic at its core

Re: Creativity fundamentally comes from memorization?

#22
post #13

It’s not memorizing, it’s actually knowing and understanding the utility of different concepts. When you learn of a problem in a new field, you go through your bucket of tools and modify one to fit the new problem.

Exactly. And "synthesis" is the better word than "creativity". I wrote an essay about this very topic some years ago: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tbMTpkPWkkN8_KH2KSpteFsb... . (if you can't open Google docs, an older draft is here: https://rogerwagner.com/creativity.html )

Interesting -- hadn't heard of this synthesis vs creativity take before

I could see that -- agreed that "creativity" can be too blunt of a word to use for all situations

Re: Creativity fundamentally comes from memorization?

#23
I agree with the author, at least in my own creative experiences. However, it's more likely the case that 'creativity' is arrived at differently for everyone. I find memorization to be a comforting foundational activity that builds knowledge & confidence, which I can later express creatively.

Re: Creativity fundamentally comes from memorization?

#24
post #23

I agree with the author, at least in my own creative experiences. However, it's more likely the case that 'creativity' is arrived at differently for everyone. I find memorization to be a comforting foundational activity that builds knowledge & confidence, which I can later express creatively.

Exactly -- memorization provides the base for creativity to take place upon

But that creativity can come from many places and in many forms!

Re: Creativity fundamentally comes from memorization?

#25
This claim makes little sense because it fails to distinguish between memory and memorization. I memorize almost nothing, but I remember the broad strokes of a lot of things. This allows me to be creative.

In a way, memorization is a severe risk: if you memorized something before it changed, for example, your creativity may not mean much.

Re: Creativity fundamentally comes from memorization?

#26

This claim makes little sense because it fails to distinguish between memory and memorization. I memorize almost nothing, but I remember the broad strokes of a lot of things. This allows me to be creative. In a way, memorization is a severe risk: if you memorized something before it changed, for example, your creativity may not mean much.

Hey thanks for reading!

What I was trying to convey is that fundamentally learning is memorization, whether conscious "rote memorization" or more less-intentional committing to memory from doing an activity

And that recognizing this allows us to speed up the process of learning fundamentals

Which in turn enables creativity as most people see it

Re: Creativity fundamentally comes from memorization?

#27
post #8
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Appreciate you reading! But how do you know how to apply this acquired knowledge in this new context? It's some form of pattern matching right -- which imo is just a less obvious form of memorization i.e. you've memorized the match between inherent traits of the context with a specific application of that knowledge

To me, “memorization” implies an active process focused on learning a particular set of “matches” (to adopt the term you’re using here). But it seems to me that tacit knowledge (and other products of less concentrated/deliberate learning) often plays a substantial role in creativity. That is, creativity fundamentally comes from internalized knowledge (as the article says) but internalized knowledge doesn’t necessaril…

I think I see -- in your view "memorization" only refers to conscious learning

While internalized knowledge comes from "subconscious" (for lack of a better word) learning?

I guess I'm equating the two here and just using memorization as "committing to memory", with the belief being that you can construct the heuristic you'd normally acquire subconsciously and cut down time to mastery

Re: Creativity fundamentally comes from memorization?

#28
post #6
post #3

I will disagree. Creativity comes from applying acquired knowledge (that's where memorization comes into account) in new contexts.

Appreciate you reading! But how do you know how to apply this acquired knowledge in this new context? It's some form of pattern matching right -- which imo is just a less obvious form of memorization i.e. you've memorized the match between inherent traits of the context with a specific application of that knowledge

> But how do you know how to apply this acquired knowledge in this new context?

That question has a false precondition baked in. If you know how, it's not creative.

> It's some form of pattern matching right -- which imo is just a less obvious form of memorization

No. Sensing and matching patterns does not imply memorization. Everything you're saying is completely loaded.

Did you just discover memorization? Because the pattern I see in your words is similar to anyone who's just learned a new tool or technique - they overapply it everywhere as they learn to use it.

Re: Creativity fundamentally comes from memorization?

#29
post #26

This claim makes little sense because it fails to distinguish between memory and memorization. I memorize almost nothing, but I remember the broad strokes of a lot of things. This allows me to be creative. In a way, memorization is a severe risk: if you memorized something before it changed, for example, your creativity may not mean much.

Hey thanks for reading! What I was trying to convey is that fundamentally learning is memorization, whether conscious "rote memorization" or more less-intentional committing to memory from doing an activity And that recognizing this allows us to speed up the process of learning fundamentals Which in turn enables creativity as most people see it

You state that "learning is memorization" but I don't think that is true. Of course learning involves something being persisted in one's brain, but stating that memorization and brain persistence persisting are synonyms seems like an incorrect description.

Re: Creativity fundamentally comes from memorization?

#30
post #15
post #11

"a flash of inspiration connecting internalized concepts" Well, okay, but rote memorization is neither necessary nor sufficient to internalize concepts. One of the reasons people make fun of the author's approach to creativity is that systematic memorization fundamentally can't teach taste —so the systematic approach reeks of awkward, try-hard, low-brow, tasteless art. More broadly, memorization doesn't help much wit…

Thanks for reading and the response! One of the points I'm trying to make is that taste and elegance fundamentally stem from an internalized heuristic -- which at it's core is memorization. I understand the connotation of "memorization" evokes an image of blindly memorizing without connecting, but isn't the tastefully developed expertise just memorization of a better heuristic?

not the parent poster but I think I agree with your perspective here. The alternative is that some individuals' taste or sense of aesthetics is somehow innate and unmoored from the statistics of the things they experience. There may be something to this, but for most practical purposes I would agree with your point.
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