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The European Union must keep funding free software

pad.public.cat

21–30 of 42 posts

Re: The European Union must keep funding free software

#21

Money is a limited resource and I don't think NGI has proven to be a good investment. They made the same sort of embarrassing mistakes your average VC fund would make like BS blockchain ideas. A lot of uninspiring "research" where some of the deliverables is some open source software that no one ever uses and for which development stops after funding runs out. There seems to be something rotten about the open source…

As someone often on the receiving end of that money... It's complicated. My organization is doing a lot of great things and it's appreciated both nationally and internationally. Some of that work is funded from EU grants (including H2020 before).

But the problem with research is... it's hard to predict where it takes you. At some point you realize that the project you got funding for is a dead end, but you can do a really cool spinoff that becomes successful but is not technically the same project.

Another problem with research is that a lot of it is exploitation. You can't get a grant for just exploring random things and seeing what happens. But at the same time is a vital part of research - so official grants need to fund a lot of "underground" research, that may or may not mature into an official product. It's hard to estimate is a money is well spent by looking just at the official projects.

... And yes, many of projects are actually wasteful. Bureaucrats are really bad at estimating what counts as a valuable project and what is actually a sham moneygrab. In our case we are known for delivering so we often "win" when we start, but often random shell companies with the hype of the week come dangerously close.

Re: The European Union must keep funding free software

#23
post #20

Well worth reflecting that relatively little of existing free software seems to come from that sort of funding. It is mostly commercial companies following commoditise-the-complement strategies, consultancies building free tools then supporting them, or research spinoffs. If EU funding can create and sustain a thriving free software ecosystem I suspect it would require a new funding model that we haven't seen yet. Ot…

Some projects funded by NLnet, https://nlnet.nl/project/

  ActivityPub  Discourse, WordPress
  bcachefs
  CryptPad
  F-Droid
  Jabber/XMPP
  Jitsi
  LibreOffice
  Matrix
  Mastodon
  NextCloud
  PulseAudio
  QubesOS
  SourceHut

Re: The European Union must keep funding free software

#24
post #20

Well worth reflecting that relatively little of existing free software seems to come from that sort of funding. It is mostly commercial companies following commoditise-the-complement strategies, consultancies building free tools then supporting them, or research spinoffs. If EU funding can create and sustain a thriving free software ecosystem I suspect it would require a new funding model that we haven't seen yet. Ot…

Source?

Re: The European Union must keep funding free software

#25
My town had a budget vote not to long ago.

I actually read the budget proposals and look at the year over year breakdown for certain categories.

The amount my town is paying for microsoft365 and GIS software is substantial. While not an eyewatering amount, and I can understand that certain things need to be licensed....its hard to understand why my local town isn't using a FOSS GIS and just setting up a basic proxmox cluster with HA failover to host the darn thing.

Re: The European Union must keep funding free software

#26

My town had a budget vote not to long ago. I actually read the budget proposals and look at the year over year breakdown for certain categories. The amount my town is paying for microsoft365 and GIS software is substantial. While not an eyewatering amount, and I can understand that certain things need to be licensed....its hard to understand why my local town isn't using a FOSS GIS and just setting up a basic proxmox…

Cuz when things need tweaking or break, there is usually no one to call. FOSS solutions are fine when there is some internal evangelist or team pushing it and are willing to support and maintain things (which over time usually comes out of some labor budget). If there is no one like that internally, even very simple issues can put people off using these systems.

Re: The European Union must keep funding free software

#27
post #19
post #11

I was thinking earlier today that self-driving automobiles would be a good use-case for a public-private venture for open source software development. My half-baked idea would be that car and computing companies could contribute their existing software to a open source consortium that would be government-sponsored, but privately run. Some fair valuation would be set for their contributions and the OSS license would r…

Not sure if you're implying that the government is supposed to oversee/manage the development of such a project, but I think they're extraordinarily bad at such things. It isn't the role of the gov either. > car and computing companies could contribute their existing software to a open source consortium that would be government-sponsored, but privately run. So basically it would just be a normal company, but the gove…

In what way should the gov decide which company to fund, and why? If it is a commercial/private company, their existence should be justified by their profits.

It makes sense for the government to fund R&D that the private sector won't fund, possibly because it would be profitable for the overall economy but not for any one company. Obviously a dozen companies are already building self-driving so that doesn't apply.

Re: The European Union must keep funding free software

#28

My town had a budget vote not to long ago. I actually read the budget proposals and look at the year over year breakdown for certain categories. The amount my town is paying for microsoft365 and GIS software is substantial. While not an eyewatering amount, and I can understand that certain things need to be licensed....its hard to understand why my local town isn't using a FOSS GIS and just setting up a basic proxmox…

Because paying people who know how to do that properly are pretty expensive? The average local MSP is paying $25/hr for people who are either early career or flunked out of college or were too incompetent for a corporate job at a larger employer. AD/O365 is pretty easy to get going on a reasonable scale without much

Re: The European Union must keep funding free software

#29
post #20

Well worth reflecting that relatively little of existing free software seems to come from that sort of funding. It is mostly commercial companies following commoditise-the-complement strategies, consultancies building free tools then supporting them, or research spinoffs. If EU funding can create and sustain a thriving free software ecosystem I suspect it would require a new funding model that we haven't seen yet. Ot…

Some projects funded by NLnet, https://nlnet.nl/project/ ActivityPub Discourse, WordPress bcachefs CryptPad F-Droid Jabber/XMPP Jitsi LibreOffice Matrix Mastodon NextCloud PulseAudio QubesOS SourceHut

That list seems a bit lacking substance and slightly off target. NLNet doesn't claim to fund libreoffice for example - that was a Sun office suite, picked up by the Apache foundation and now controlled by the Document Foundation (mainly through general donations if I understood their financial reports). NLNet seems to be funding things like "encrypted collaborative editing in the browser [using libreoffice]" which is a different kettle of fish. Nice option to have, but fairly niche functionality in the LO suite as far as I know.

And how does all this funding compare to something like the Google's Chrome & Firefox? That is one company controlling the majority of web traffic through OSS that on balance respects user freedom. To me, that is a better funding model with better results.

Funding use cases may well be a good use of time, but given the serious issues the EU has establishing itself in the tech industry, the military and economic crisis they have managed to waddle in to and the general political turmoil that seems to have kicked up I opine it is not the time to be wasting political bandwidth like this note calls for. The US model of letting companies fund and build software (including free software) seems a bit stronger, more flexible and politically easier to coordinate.

We don't need all of Europe to come together and work out who they think is the best team to build web technologies. Google puts a team on it and it probably happens. There are worse ideas out there than calls for government funding but it just doesn't sound effective to me - these continent-spanning governance bodies don't have the bandwidth to pull off this sort of delicate technical work.

Re: The European Union must keep funding free software

#30
post #20

Well worth reflecting that relatively little of existing free software seems to come from that sort of funding. It is mostly commercial companies following commoditise-the-complement strategies, consultancies building free tools then supporting them, or research spinoffs. If EU funding can create and sustain a thriving free software ecosystem I suspect it would require a new funding model that we haven't seen yet. Ot…

Some projects funded by NLnet, https://nlnet.nl/project/ ActivityPub Discourse, WordPress bcachefs CryptPad F-Droid Jabber/XMPP Jitsi LibreOffice Matrix Mastodon NextCloud PulseAudio QubesOS SourceHut

My project Renderling (https://github.com/schell/renderling) is funded by NLNet and I can say the whole process has been great. It’s changed the way I think about open source and gives me motivation to continue.
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