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Psilocybin desynchronizes the human brain

nature.com

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Re: Psilocybin desynchronizes the human brain

#21

Post by sdwr »

bubblyworld wrote: post #18
notnaut wrote: post #12

While the analogies are often useful, everyone reading HN comments should be very aware and very skeptical of just how often computer/tech people rely on computer/tech analogies to understand things that are fundamentally not computers/tech. It is very very easy for smart people with functionally specific jobs/hobbies/ways of thinking to see all reality through that narrow window. It often leads to important details…

I've had similar experiences on mushrooms (and high doses of marijuana too, to a lesser extent). It feels like a mix of intense awe and the the satisfactory "click" of finally understanding something to me. I'm quite sure it's more of an emotional state than "fundamental truth", or anything like that, but it sure is powerful. Very easy to understand how mythology can build around the stuff.

Mythology, also procedure.

If I am a member of a tribe that uses ceremonial ayhuasca at regular intervals, I will build my relationships around that cycle, so the feeling of awe and understanding corresponds with an actual personal breakthrough or meaningful group event. That's the 10x use case

Re: Psilocybin desynchronizes the human brain

#23

Post by stvltvs »

codr7 wrote: post #13
notnaut wrote: post #12

While the analogies are often useful, everyone reading HN comments should be very aware and very skeptical of just how often computer/tech people rely on computer/tech analogies to understand things that are fundamentally not computers/tech. It is very very easy for smart people with functionally specific jobs/hobbies/ways of thinking to see all reality through that narrow window. It often leads to important details…

I would argue it's way more meaningful... It's unconscious knowledge; maybe not ready to hit the surface yet, but still actively affecting your life from within. Whatever glimpses you get is just what you're capable of dealing with atm. Everybody's experience is different.

It might clarify things to say unconscious beliefs, expectations, or thought patterns instead of knowledge. It doesn't seem that the subconscious mind is a font of pure wisdom and knowledge but it powerfully affects us in ways that our conscious mind isn't aware of, by definition.

Before using psychedelics, it's important to anchor ourselves by questioning the difference between knowing something and feeling like we know something.

Re: Psilocybin desynchronizes the human brain

#24

Post by stvltvs »

JohnMakin wrote: post #19
TechDebtDevin wrote: post #17

PSA: My buddy shot himself in the head while we were on shrooms in our twenties. He thought he meant God, took a shower picked up a gun and shot himself in the head. While I've had trips since then and do get benefits from those experiences. People without experience should be careful, especially if you have a history of mental illness. He did have a history to some degree but not overtly.

[flagged]

I think what you said is compatible with OP. It urged caution, not prohibition.

Re: Psilocybin desynchronizes the human brain

#25

Post by bogota »

JohnMakin wrote: post #19
TechDebtDevin wrote: post #17

PSA: My buddy shot himself in the head while we were on shrooms in our twenties. He thought he meant God, took a shower picked up a gun and shot himself in the head. While I've had trips since then and do get benefits from those experiences. People without experience should be careful, especially if you have a history of mental illness. He did have a history to some degree but not overtly.

[flagged]

You don’t need to be a doctor or therapist to let people know that some people can have very bad reactions and it’s not all roses.

I see the same thing happening in people smoke marijuana where any claim that it can have harmful effects for some or with abuse is met with “yeah well what do you know, i read this other thing and i never had issues myself”.

Re: Psilocybin desynchronizes the human brain

#26

Post by itronitron »

notnaut wrote: post #12

While the analogies are often useful, everyone reading HN comments should be very aware and very skeptical of just how often computer/tech people rely on computer/tech analogies to understand things that are fundamentally not computers/tech. It is very very easy for smart people with functionally specific jobs/hobbies/ways of thinking to see all reality through that narrow window. It often leads to important details…

Feeling "it is just a feeling" is also just a feeling.

Re: Psilocybin desynchronizes the human brain

#27

Post by mock-possum »

stvltvs wrote: post #23
codr7 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue it's way more meaningful... It's unconscious knowledge; maybe not ready to hit the surface yet, but still actively affecting your life from within. Whatever glimpses you get is just what you're capable of dealing with atm. Everybody's experience is different.

It might clarify things to say unconscious beliefs, expectations, or thought patterns instead of knowledge. It doesn't seem that the subconscious mind is a font of pure wisdom and knowledge but it powerfully affects us in ways that our conscious mind isn't aware of, by definition. Before using psychedelics, it's important to anchor ourselves by questioning the difference between knowing something and feeling like we…

One thing that a lot of people struggle with is seeing their feelings as ‘just’ feelings - it’s got to be something to do with our biology, where we instinctively seek out and cling to answers for why we feel a certain way - to justify our feelings I guess - instead of recognizing them as ‘just’ feelings, and seeing that instinct for what it is - ‘blind’ instinct that can easily seduce us into false beliefs.

Re: Psilocybin desynchronizes the human brain

#28

Post by JohnMakin »

bogota wrote: post #25
JohnMakin wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You don’t need to be a doctor or therapist to let people know that some people can have very bad reactions and it’s not all roses. I see the same thing happening in people smoke marijuana where any claim that it can have harmful effects for some or with abuse is met with “yeah well what do you know, i read this other thing and i never had issues myself”.

It seems to me that in this case the issue was someone out of their mind high on shrooms had immediate access to a gun, not the “mentally ill person does drugs and dies” trope which is quite tired and I’m pretty sure not backed by any kind of science.

I only posted my reply because comments like these add to the stigma of mental illness and may make people who are suffering less willing to try these types of treatments.

Re: Psilocybin desynchronizes the human brain

#29

Post by bubblyworld »

sdwr wrote: post #21
bubblyworld wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had similar experiences on mushrooms (and high doses of marijuana too, to a lesser extent). It feels like a mix of intense awe and the the satisfactory "click" of finally understanding something to me. I'm quite sure it's more of an emotional state than "fundamental truth", or anything like that, but it sure is powerful. Very easy to understand how mythology can build around the stuff.

Mythology, also procedure. If I am a member of a tribe that uses ceremonial ayhuasca at regular intervals, I will build my relationships around that cycle, so the feeling of awe and understanding corresponds with an actual personal breakthrough or meaningful group event. That's the 10x use case

That's an interesting idea, thanks. I might consider trying it!
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