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Microsoft Answers Coder Cries Over New Development Kit

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Re: Microsoft Answers Coder Cries Over New Development Kit

#21

In before the hate train starts rolling full steam ahead right over Microsoft. This is a fantastic decision, they obviously really had no choice otherwise a lot of people would have abandoned Windows 8 development and Microsoft would have looked bad launching an OS that didn't have many supported applications. As for Windows XP support, why would Microsoft add in support for an OS they don't really support any more?…

I understand that Microsoft does not want to perpetuate Windows XP support but, for this single reason, I will not be able to upgrade to VS 2012. This means missing on the latest c++ features and also means maintaining two developement trees if I decide to develop a WinRt version.

Re: Microsoft Answers Coder Cries Over New Development Kit

#22
post #21

In before the hate train starts rolling full steam ahead right over Microsoft. This is a fantastic decision, they obviously really had no choice otherwise a lot of people would have abandoned Windows 8 development and Microsoft would have looked bad launching an OS that didn't have many supported applications. As for Windows XP support, why would Microsoft add in support for an OS they don't really support any more?…

I understand that Microsoft does not want to perpetuate Windows XP support but, for this single reason, I will not be able to upgrade to VS 2012. This means missing on the latest c++ features and also means maintaining two developement trees if I decide to develop a WinRt version.

Latest C++ features are in MinGW and clang! And latest C features (C99) are there too.

Re: Microsoft Answers Coder Cries Over New Development Kit

#23

In before the hate train starts rolling full steam ahead right over Microsoft. This is a fantastic decision, they obviously really had no choice otherwise a lot of people would have abandoned Windows 8 development and Microsoft would have looked bad launching an OS that didn't have many supported applications. As for Windows XP support, why would Microsoft add in support for an OS they don't really support any more?…

As for Windows XP support, why would Microsoft add in support for an OS they don't really support any more? Because Windows XP is stable, it works and a lot of companies and people are still using it. If anything, Microsoft is to be blamed for not providing a compelling reason to upgrade. Windows Vista was awful, while Windows 7 is just a re-branded Vista with a little more polish applied. Which is why at home I stil…

That's wrong. 7 is really good. Comparing it to vista or xp shows you don't know what you are talking about.

Re: Microsoft Answers Coder Cries Over New Development Kit

#24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that there were about four or five posts on the front page about the changes to the express version changes it would that a lot of people care. I'm glad Microsoft listened to people on this one.

I've only seen this one. Is HN bubbling us in? By this I mean an effect similar to google search results being personalized to the person who is searching.

Sorry I meant when they announced a few weeks ago that the expression version wouldn't support native Windows apps.

Re: Microsoft Answers Coder Cries Over New Development Kit

#25
post #2

Funny ... I haven't heard anyone crying. Oh yeah, they're all developing HTML5 applications that will run on Chrome and Firefox and maybe Internet Explorer. Why worry about the OS' look and feel?

Given that there were about four or five posts on the front page about the changes to the express version changes it would that a lot of people care. I'm glad Microsoft listened to people on this one.

Isn't my answer in essence the same as ShabbyDoo's (currently atop this thread)? Let me rephrase it (minus the sarcasm):

As developers, isn't platform independence finally within our reach? We've been corralled into corporate SDKs, libraries and APIs for years and we've now broken free in much the same way we did on the CLI when C became standardized (yeah ... there are still issues with that too).

At the same time I'm wondering what corporate users are going to think of a radically different desktop (and one that looks more "toy-like"). We're a pretty adaptable crowd, but retraining costs are going to be as bad as when Office became ribbon-based. And where's my "Start" menu?

I'm not a Microsoft hater, but I don't think it's bad that they're less dominant.

Re: Microsoft Answers Coder Cries Over New Development Kit

#26
post #4

Off topic: the "headlinese" title of this article results in syntactic ambiguity. I read it as: The coder who built Microsoft Answers ( http://answers.microsoft.com/ ) cried because of a new development kit. Related: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden_path_sentence http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crash_blossom#In_headlines

"Microsoft Answers", coder cries ...

Re: Microsoft Answers Coder Cries Over New Development Kit

#27
post #21

In before the hate train starts rolling full steam ahead right over Microsoft. This is a fantastic decision, they obviously really had no choice otherwise a lot of people would have abandoned Windows 8 development and Microsoft would have looked bad launching an OS that didn't have many supported applications. As for Windows XP support, why would Microsoft add in support for an OS they don't really support any more?…

I understand that Microsoft does not want to perpetuate Windows XP support but, for this single reason, I will not be able to upgrade to VS 2012. This means missing on the latest c++ features and also means maintaining two developement trees if I decide to develop a WinRt version.

To be fair, you'd need two development trees for WinRT anyway - the namespaces are different, for one thing, and the UIs are of course radically different and incompatible.

Re: Microsoft Answers Coder Cries Over New Development Kit

#28
post #18
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly what the motivation for the "Metro/WinRT" strategy for Windows 8 was in the first place, though - to get more developers writing directly for (new versions of) Windows rather than relying on third-party (or even first-party) runtime layers.

WinRT feels foreign on many fronts. I'm evaluating Win8 for us, and I compiled few of the examples that MS provided. My absolute first impression was that it's hard to debug these applications: While there was a time, where few or more files were auto-generated, now there are dozens more. On top of that not one project, but two - one container (dll, your app), the other one - the runner (some small exe). And then pre…

Oh, I wouldn't consider Metro style apps as any kind of replacement for desktop apps or most professional tools. I've been running Windows 8 for a while now, but to me on desktops or larger screened laptops they are just fancy gadgets that live off the left side of my screen. I like having them because they are isolated and suspended when not running, so I can use lots of them without impacting the system (or even cluttering the taskbar). I just grab one from the switcher or the start screen, check something or do something simple, and then click in the upper left corner to go back to the desktop. It's a bit like I might have a phone next to me while using a PC and check mail on it sometimes, but there are some advantages such as being able to use your keyboard to enter text, being able to click on a link and have it open in the desktop, etc. However for integrating into any more involved workflow I would stick to desktop apps for the reasons you mentioned. (I also agree that the Metro open file dialog is really lame, it somehow manages to be even worse than the Windows folder browser dialog and I didn't think such a thing was even possible).

There is a lot of weird FUD about the desktop being "legacy" and on its way out, and although that's not something Microsoft has actually said it does come partly from them being overeager to hype their new thing because it's their new thing, and partly from the press echo chamber liking to hype things in general. But it's completely absurd.

re debugging, I think there is an "emulator" you can use which is really a remoting session into your own machine, but it will run your app in a window.

Re: Microsoft Answers Coder Cries Over New Development Kit

#29
post #12

It seems like the risk of not collecting $500 from a bunch of developers is peanuts compared to the real threat MSFT now faces of people choosing to develop non Windows-specific apps which happen to still work on Windows. How many "apps" have you installed lately which are really just local servers with web front-ends? Qt-based stuff? Java SWT/Swing? What else? While many of these apps likely are built upon 3rd party…

True they still control a huge proportion of the desktop market, but most of that is business desktops. Apple's market share is heavily lopsided towards the high end consumer market. It's similar to their position with the iPhone. They have a minority market share, but its the most valuable part of the market. For over a decade Microsoft has essentially been able to behave as if they have no competition, while Apple…

Don't know about just the high end. At my "starving artist" son's college, he was the only one who didn't have a Mac. At my other son's college, easily 3/4 of all the students used a Mac.

Re: Microsoft Answers Coder Cries Over New Development Kit

#30
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As for Windows XP support, why would Microsoft add in support for an OS they don't really support any more? Because Windows XP is stable, it works and a lot of companies and people are still using it. If anything, Microsoft is to be blamed for not providing a compelling reason to upgrade. Windows Vista was awful, while Windows 7 is just a re-branded Vista with a little more polish applied. Which is why at home I stil…

That's wrong. 7 is really good. Comparing it to vista or xp shows you don't know what you are talking about.

Name 3 differences between Vista and XP that don't involve minor UI tweaks.
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