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Women who make Samsung semiconductors are striking

english.hani.co.kr

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Re: Women who make Samsung semiconductors are striking

#21

Post by Aperocky »

ryandrake wrote: post #13
abdullahkhalids wrote: post #7

> Samsung’s 12-inch line utilizes an overhead hoist transport (OHT) system, an automated transport network that operates along tracks installed on the ceiling, to move bundles of 25 wafers called “lots.” On the 8-inch line, however, this transportation is done manually. There is much more market demand for 12-inch wafers, so Samsung has modernized and automated many processes. The 8-inch line, however, is outdated. W…

> 1. Some workers lose their jobs to automation. > 2. The remaining ones have a weaker negotiation power, as their jobs are on the way out anyway. So companies have even more incentive to abuse them. I wonder what the eventual end game is, when you let everything play out to its logical conclusion. Eventually, business owners will no longer need people at all. They'll own a magical fully-automated factory that mainta…

I think this is purely focused on the supply side and neglecting demand and its role in the economy.

The world economy today isn't driven by lack of supply (for the vast majority categories of products), rather it is by lack of demand. Whoever owns the demand owns the power in this dynamic. One can have all the factories in the world when consumer stop buying it's in for a rough time, like China is finding out.

Re: Women who make Samsung semiconductors are striking

#23

Post by huijzer »

ryandrake wrote: post #13
abdullahkhalids wrote: post #7

> Samsung’s 12-inch line utilizes an overhead hoist transport (OHT) system, an automated transport network that operates along tracks installed on the ceiling, to move bundles of 25 wafers called “lots.” On the 8-inch line, however, this transportation is done manually. There is much more market demand for 12-inch wafers, so Samsung has modernized and automated many processes. The 8-inch line, however, is outdated. W…

> 1. Some workers lose their jobs to automation. > 2. The remaining ones have a weaker negotiation power, as their jobs are on the way out anyway. So companies have even more incentive to abuse them. I wonder what the eventual end game is, when you let everything play out to its logical conclusion. Eventually, business owners will no longer need people at all. They'll own a magical fully-automated factory that mainta…

I think you can find businesses like this already. They only have a few capable people and that’s it. For example, MasterCard, Visa, RenTec, and probably some hedge funds somewhere.

Re: Women who make Samsung semiconductors are striking

#24

Post by svara »

ryandrake wrote: post #13
abdullahkhalids wrote: post #7

> Samsung’s 12-inch line utilizes an overhead hoist transport (OHT) system, an automated transport network that operates along tracks installed on the ceiling, to move bundles of 25 wafers called “lots.” On the 8-inch line, however, this transportation is done manually. There is much more market demand for 12-inch wafers, so Samsung has modernized and automated many processes. The 8-inch line, however, is outdated. W…

> 1. Some workers lose their jobs to automation. > 2. The remaining ones have a weaker negotiation power, as their jobs are on the way out anyway. So companies have even more incentive to abuse them. I wonder what the eventual end game is, when you let everything play out to its logical conclusion. Eventually, business owners will no longer need people at all. They'll own a magical fully-automated factory that mainta…

That's the argument for universal basic income in a nutshell.

I'm not so convinced, I think this comes from the limited mental model of thinking of the economy as a system for making widgets.

Rather, the economy is what happens when a society organizes its member's aggregated needs and desires.

Being a valued member of a community is a rather basic human need. As such, the economy will find novel ways to meet that aggregated desire, if it's not being met anymore by jobs that employ many workers today.

That's a rather unconventional view maybe, but I'm rather convinced it's the right one.

Of course, it leaves all the details open and the path to get there might be rocky.

Re: Women who make Samsung semiconductors are striking

#26

Post by alephnerd »

marcodiego wrote: post #16

I worked for a giant Korean company (offshore, third party outsource). Their view of workers right is very different from "the west". It was said, among my colleagues at the time, that in our country their main headquarters had a law office exclusively to handle abuse cases quickly. I heard stories of Korean lifting their voices and a case where the chair of a programmer was kicked by a Korean manager because he let…

I'd be pessimistic about a cultural change - look at what happened to the Doctor's strike.

The only option is to become an expat and end up perpetuating the same traumas, as Pinoy, Thai, Chinese, Vietnamese, Indian, Indonesian, etc employees of Korean companies in their countries can attest to.

Korean work culture is itself a reflection of Japanese work culture back when SK was Japan's version of Mexico before the 2010s.

Re: Women who make Samsung semiconductors are striking

#27

Post by Tade0 »

ryandrake wrote: post #13
abdullahkhalids wrote: post #7

> Samsung’s 12-inch line utilizes an overhead hoist transport (OHT) system, an automated transport network that operates along tracks installed on the ceiling, to move bundles of 25 wafers called “lots.” On the 8-inch line, however, this transportation is done manually. There is much more market demand for 12-inch wafers, so Samsung has modernized and automated many processes. The 8-inch line, however, is outdated. W…

> 1. Some workers lose their jobs to automation. > 2. The remaining ones have a weaker negotiation power, as their jobs are on the way out anyway. So companies have even more incentive to abuse them. I wonder what the eventual end game is, when you let everything play out to its logical conclusion. Eventually, business owners will no longer need people at all. They'll own a magical fully-automated factory that mainta…

The many will quite simply stop having children, because why bother? Then the mgic box owners will attempt doing something to have a population to sell to, but that will ultimately fail.

It can be argued that it already started - globally the number of children born peaked around 2013-2017. The pandemic only accelerated the process.

Re: Women who make Samsung semiconductors are striking

#28

Post by mschuster91 »

ryandrake wrote: post #13
abdullahkhalids wrote: post #7

> Samsung’s 12-inch line utilizes an overhead hoist transport (OHT) system, an automated transport network that operates along tracks installed on the ceiling, to move bundles of 25 wafers called “lots.” On the 8-inch line, however, this transportation is done manually. There is much more market demand for 12-inch wafers, so Samsung has modernized and automated many processes. The 8-inch line, however, is outdated. W…

> 1. Some workers lose their jobs to automation. > 2. The remaining ones have a weaker negotiation power, as their jobs are on the way out anyway. So companies have even more incentive to abuse them. I wonder what the eventual end game is, when you let everything play out to its logical conclusion. Eventually, business owners will no longer need people at all. They'll own a magical fully-automated factory that mainta…

Well... yes, for capitalism, that is the endgame. Neo-feudalism to be precise.

And unlike the last times where feudalism was overthrown, these days police is often enough on par with the military, and the governments can track us whenever and wherever we want by the tiny little bugs we carry around in our pockets. Call for a revolution or for violent acts online, and a day later the FBI knocks on your door and takes everything digital you have.

Re: Women who make Samsung semiconductors are striking

#29

Post by makapuf »

alephnerd wrote: post #26
marcodiego wrote: post #16

I worked for a giant Korean company (offshore, third party outsource). Their view of workers right is very different from "the west". It was said, among my colleagues at the time, that in our country their main headquarters had a law office exclusively to handle abuse cases quickly. I heard stories of Korean lifting their voices and a case where the chair of a programmer was kicked by a Korean manager because he let…

I'd be pessimistic about a cultural change - look at what happened to the Doctor's strike. The only option is to become an expat and end up perpetuating the same traumas, as Pinoy, Thai, Chinese, Vietnamese, Indian, Indonesian, etc employees of Korean companies in their countries can attest to. Korean work culture is itself a reflection of Japanese work culture back when SK was Japan's version of Mexico before the 20…

Can you tell us what happened to the Doctors strike ?

Re: Women who make Samsung semiconductors are striking

#30

Post by kybernetikos »

Blackthorn wrote: post #15
ryandrake wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. Some workers lose their jobs to automation. > 2. The remaining ones have a weaker negotiation power, as their jobs are on the way out anyway. So companies have even more incentive to abuse them. I wonder what the eventual end game is, when you let everything play out to its logical conclusion. Eventually, business owners will no longer need people at all. They'll own a magical fully-automated factory that mainta…

Historically, violence has been at least somewhat successful as a disincentive for this. Hasn't always fixed the immediate problem but the threat of it, and eventual implementation, kept too much of a gap from happening.

I doubt it'll work this time though though, since we are beginning to make big strides in automating violence too. The people who own the boxes will own the murderbots too.
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