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Short-term rentals disrupting SF housing market

sfgate.com

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Re: Short-term rentals disrupting SF housing market

#21

Post by pork »

ditojim wrote: post #18
tptacek wrote: post #10

Much of the criticism of Airbnb in this article seems to stem from renters "subletting" their apartments to vacationers. Why does Airbnb allow renters to list their apartments on Airbnb at all? In virtually no case does a renter have a lease that permits Airbnb-style listings; the boilerplate lease that virtually everyone works from requires landlord approval for each subletter. It seems unconscionable to rent an apa…

and airbnb really doesnt care about this or they would take further steps to ensure that their rentors have the authority to rent the place. they say they do, but they don't. without renters i think airbnb would be in trouble..how many homeowners really want strangers coming in and out of their home regularly?

There's a category of homeowners like that: vacation home owners who DO explocitly want people coming in and out and paying.

Re: Short-term rentals disrupting SF housing market

#22

Post by cluutran »

tptacek wrote: post #10

Much of the criticism of Airbnb in this article seems to stem from renters "subletting" their apartments to vacationers. Why does Airbnb allow renters to list their apartments on Airbnb at all? In virtually no case does a renter have a lease that permits Airbnb-style listings; the boilerplate lease that virtually everyone works from requires landlord approval for each subletter. It seems unconscionable to rent an apa…

Not all landlords have leases, credit checks, or references. What about those cases?

Re: Short-term rentals disrupting SF housing market

#23

Post by kanamekun »

josefresco wrote: post #8

For an industry so focused on disrupting ...everything. Things start to get real hard, boring and normal when met with success and exposure to the public . I admire the optimism that youth brings, allowing someone to look at a problem with a fresh perspective but all too often, the rules, laws and regulations in place that make the old way of doing business so boring and hard are actually in place for a very good rea…

"Meeting with local community leaders and the public to discuss the issues surrounding their service? That doesn't scale very well and is again ... messy, boring and hard."

In other words, a fantastic way to build barriers to entry and really lock up a new industry.

Re: Short-term rentals disrupting SF housing market

#24

Post by [deleted] »

nodata wrote: post #7
tokenadult wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not mentioned is if they tried to talk to their neighbour. Was the neighbor who had control of the unit as a tenant on the lease home when the room was rented out? I don't think so. The article opens with these paragraphs: "First came the noisy upstairs neighbors who said they were just "renting the place for a couple of nights" but refused to tone it down. Then came the people who would try to open the front door of…

..DID talk to those visitors.. They need to talk to the person the visitors are renting from. Is that doesn't work, they can go one level higher up.

[deleted]

Re: Short-term rentals disrupting SF housing market

#25

Post by tptacek »

netcan wrote: post #20
tptacek wrote: post #10

Much of the criticism of Airbnb in this article seems to stem from renters "subletting" their apartments to vacationers. Why does Airbnb allow renters to list their apartments on Airbnb at all? In virtually no case does a renter have a lease that permits Airbnb-style listings; the boilerplate lease that virtually everyone works from requires landlord approval for each subletter. It seems unconscionable to rent an apa…

Question: Why does Airbnb need to deal with this at all? I mean, if these apartments were being advertised on craigslist or local classifieds would you think they need to deal with it?

The classifieds don't provide comprehensive listings of short-term vacation rentals.

But I'm not saying Airbnb "needs" to deal with it. I'm saying they "should" decline listings from people who don't own their property absent some documentation of consent from the landlord of that property.

Re: Short-term rentals disrupting SF housing market

#26

Post by arethuza »

ditojim wrote: post #18
tptacek wrote: post #10

Much of the criticism of Airbnb in this article seems to stem from renters "subletting" their apartments to vacationers. Why does Airbnb allow renters to list their apartments on Airbnb at all? In virtually no case does a renter have a lease that permits Airbnb-style listings; the boilerplate lease that virtually everyone works from requires landlord approval for each subletter. It seems unconscionable to rent an apa…

and airbnb really doesnt care about this or they would take further steps to ensure that their rentors have the authority to rent the place. they say they do, but they don't. without renters i think airbnb would be in trouble..how many homeowners really want strangers coming in and out of their home regularly?

"how many homeowners really want strangers coming in and out of their home regularly?"

Everyone who runs a Bed and Breakfast business from their home? (In the UK this sector is huge).

Re: Short-term rentals disrupting SF housing market

#27

Post by jseliger »

mindcrime wrote: post #15

all too often, the rules, laws and regulations in place that make the old way of doing business so boring and hard are actually in place for a very good reason. {{citation needed}} I can just as easily say that "the rules, laws and regulations in place that make the old way of doing business so boring and hard are actually in place because of corruption, greed, nepotism, and/or incompetence and are universally immora…

The article has one other howler: "But others, encouraged by lax oversight and lucrative payoffs, use the rental sites to run ad-hoc hotels, which besides annoying neighbors, takes long-term rentals off a market that desperately needs them. . ."

San Francisco has also made it virtually impossible to build new housing units (http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2012/05/face...). If the city needs more housing stock, there's an advanced, information-age technology called the "elevator" that can allow it to build a very large number of housing units on a very small amount of land.

Re: Short-term rentals disrupting SF housing market

#28

Post by vecinu »

kanamekun wrote: post #23
josefresco wrote: post #8

For an industry so focused on disrupting ...everything. Things start to get real hard, boring and normal when met with success and exposure to the public . I admire the optimism that youth brings, allowing someone to look at a problem with a fresh perspective but all too often, the rules, laws and regulations in place that make the old way of doing business so boring and hard are actually in place for a very good rea…

"Meeting with local community leaders and the public to discuss the issues surrounding their service? That doesn't scale very well and is again ... messy, boring and hard." In other words, a fantastic way to build barriers to entry and really lock up a new industry.

A lot of folks don't want to acknowledge this fact but many businesses operate this way.

Most internet startups have low or no barriers to entry, so they can get an idea off the ground really quickly.

Re: Short-term rentals disrupting SF housing market

#29

Post by abcd_f »

nodata wrote: post #2

"The big surprise for us was when we tried to contact Airbnb" to complain, said Thieme, a writer and editor... Not mentioned is if they tried to talk to their neighbour .

First came the noisy upstairs neighbors who said they were just "renting the place for a couple of nights" but refused to tone it down.

Re: Short-term rentals disrupting SF housing market

#30

Post by tptacek »

pork wrote: post #21
ditojim wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and airbnb really doesnt care about this or they would take further steps to ensure that their rentors have the authority to rent the place. they say they do, but they don't. without renters i think airbnb would be in trouble..how many homeowners really want strangers coming in and out of their home regularly?

There's a category of homeowners like that: vacation home owners who DO explocitly want people coming in and out and paying.

I like Airbnb, and while I think they should own up to their users real tax liability (if you're listing your place for the majority of the year, you're a hotel), I don't want to see them smote by regulations.

But that doesn't mean I'm shrugging my shoulders and saying "eh, that's what disruption looks like!" when renters in apartment buildings convert their spaces into mini-hotels. That's abusive. Fortunately, it's also unlawful, and there's a clear chain of responsibility to resolve it.

Cotenants in buildings experiencing Airbnb abuse shouldn't bother talking to Airbnb or their neighbors. They should report the conversion to their landlord, and then have a notice-and-cure drafted. In most circumstances, landlords probably cannot allow their buildings to be partially converted into hotels under the terms of their existing tenants leases.

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