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"Nik": The Mesoamerican Representation of Zero (2021)

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Re: "Nik": The Mesoamerican Representation of Zero (2021)

#21

Post by bradrn »

bloak wrote: post #12
paleotrope wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Ago" is kind of agglutinative. In english it isn't used by itself. It's pretty much a suffix even though by convention it is it's own word.

It's more like a preposition that exceptionally comes after the noun phrase instead of before it. (Is there another thing like that in English? I can't think of one, though there's one in German: entlang) Etymologically it's a past participle: three days agone (gone) => three days ago

> It's more like a preposition that exceptionally comes after the noun phrase instead of before it.

Called a ‘postposition’. And that’s precisely what ‘ago’ is!

Re: "Nik": The Mesoamerican Representation of Zero (2021)

#22

Post by Kye »

OJFord wrote: post #17
Quekid5 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yesteryear is also one I've actually heard used. (But again, not exactly common.)

For abstract times gone by though right? I've never heard it used to mean specifically 'last year'. (And in fact typically much more than just one year ago, not including it.)

I stopped making assumptions about what terms people see as abstract and which they see as concrete when I found out not everyone understands a few as three.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/grammar/couple-few-several-u...

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37722244

Re: "Nik": The Mesoamerican Representation of Zero (2021)

#23

Post by NoboruWataya »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #16
paleotrope wrote: post #4

"It is noteworthy to point out that in Spanish or English, there are no expressions of time that go any further than two days into the past or the future;" I'll think about this more next week.

I believe expressions in this case means words that refer to the concept, they are however wrong because I will be thinking about it in a fortnight.

"In a fortnight" is not a word, obviously we have words that refer to lengths of time greater than two days, but I think the point is that we have no single word to describe the day that is a fortnight from now.

One thing I found mildly interesting about the distinction between English and Spanish is that English has "tonight" but no single word for "last night", whereas in Spanish it's the opposite.

Re: "Nik": The Mesoamerican Representation of Zero (2021)

#24

Post by OJFord »

Kye wrote: post #22
OJFord wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For abstract times gone by though right? I've never heard it used to mean specifically 'last year'. (And in fact typically much more than just one year ago, not including it.)

I stopped making assumptions about what terms people see as abstract and which they see as concrete when I found out not everyone understands a few as three. https://www.merriam-webster.com/grammar/couple-few-several-u... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37722244

Not exactly three though, just not less.

If I send you to the shop for a few beers, you've got to return with a concrete number. Maybe 4 cans, because that's how they're sold, or maybe 3 bottles because there was a 3 for £5 deal. Or maybe you come back with a whole case because it caught your eye, and I say Woah hey you got several!

Re: "Nik": The Mesoamerican Representation of Zero (2021)

#25

Post by Shorel »

paleotrope wrote: post #8
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some reason, it's cooler of it's agglutinative.

"Ago" is kind of agglutinative. In english it isn't used by itself. It's pretty much a suffix even though by convention it is it's own word.

In linguistics, such usage is called collocation.

Agglutination is a different concept.

Re: "Nik": The Mesoamerican Representation of Zero (2021)

#26

Post by thaumasiotes »

bradrn wrote: post #21
bloak wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more like a preposition that exceptionally comes after the noun phrase instead of before it. (Is there another thing like that in English? I can't think of one, though there's one in German: entlang) Etymologically it's a past participle: three days agone (gone) => three days ago

> It's more like a preposition that exceptionally comes after the noun phrase instead of before it. Called a ‘postposition’. And that’s precisely what ‘ago’ is!

The nonjudgmental term of art appears to be "adposition". It isn't clear to me why this was coined as "adposition" and not "apposition".

"Preposition" is already something of an unnatural word class. They have two main functions in English: to describe some kind of location ("Sam? He's with Natasha"), and to mark certain arguments to verbs ("The tools? Sam's playing with them").

It's just a coincidence that prepositions serve both of these purposes in English; in Mandarin, the same two purposes are served by completely separate word classes. Verb argument markers are preposed; location markers are postposed.

Re: "Nik": The Mesoamerican Representation of Zero (2021)

#27

Post by [deleted] »

OJFord wrote: post #24
Kye wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I stopped making assumptions about what terms people see as abstract and which they see as concrete when I found out not everyone understands a few as three. https://www.merriam-webster.com/grammar/couple-few-several-u... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37722244

Not exactly three though, just not less. If I send you to the shop for a few beers, you've got to return with a concrete number. Maybe 4 cans, because that's how they're sold, or maybe 3 bottles because there was a 3 for £5 deal. Or maybe you come back with a whole case because it caught your eye, and I say Woah hey you got several !

[deleted]

Re: "Nik": The Mesoamerican Representation of Zero (2021)

#28

Post by Angostura »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #15
bloak wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more like a preposition that exceptionally comes after the noun phrase instead of before it. (Is there another thing like that in English? I can't think of one, though there's one in German: entlang) Etymologically it's a past participle: three days agone (gone) => three days ago

> It's more like a preposition that exceptionally comes after the noun phrase instead of before it. (Is there another thing like that in English? I can't think of one, though there's one in German: entlang) There are some similar constructions: - Three days hence. (archaic) - Three days later. - Three days beforehand. - Three days afterwards. I failed to think of one that didn't have to do with time. You could think…

I like your antipenultimate example

Re: "Nik": The Mesoamerican Representation of Zero (2021)

#29

Post by [deleted] »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #26
bradrn wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's more like a preposition that exceptionally comes after the noun phrase instead of before it. Called a ‘postposition’. And that’s precisely what ‘ago’ is!

The nonjudgmental term of art appears to be "adposition". It isn't clear to me why this was coined as "adposition" and not "apposition". "Preposition" is already something of an unnatural word class. They have two main functions in English: to describe some kind of location ("Sam? He's with Natasha"), and to mark certain arguments to verbs ("The tools? Sam's playing with them"). It's just a coincidence that prepositi…

[deleted]

Re: "Nik": The Mesoamerican Representation of Zero (2021)

#30

Post by superhuzza »

NoboruWataya wrote: post #23
bryanrasmussen wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe expressions in this case means words that refer to the concept, they are however wrong because I will be thinking about it in a fortnight.

"In a fortnight" is not a word, obviously we have words that refer to lengths of time greater than two days, but I think the point is that we have no single word to describe the day that is a fortnight from now. One thing I found mildly interesting about the distinction between English and Spanish is that English has "tonight" but no single word for "last night", whereas in Spanish it's the opposite.

There is "yestereve" but it's archaic and never used. Despite not being used, totally understandable to English speakers.
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