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America Has an Answer to the Biggest Problem with EVs

theatlantic.com

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Re: America Has an Answer to the Biggest Problem with EVs

#21

Post by sitkack »

thebeardisred wrote: post #3

My meta-takeaway is that it behooves* the industry to further standardize on the interfaces between components. That will increase repairability over time when coupled with the correct legislation. *Based on the current OEM/supplier relationship, network of repair shops, etc. All of the post sales businesses built up to support the initial sale.

> My meta-takeaway is that it behooves* the industry to further standardize on the interfaces between components.

This is what the government along with standards bodies and manufacturers should be doing. It shouldn't be a market decision, because the market can't optimize this outcome.

Re: America Has an Answer to the Biggest Problem with EVs

#22

Post by asdff »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #2

> Joe Biden’s climate agenda is all about new-EV sales. The unstated bit is American new-EV sales. > Electric vehicles made up about 8 percent of new car sales in the United States last year, compared with more than a quarter in China, where new EVs can go for about $10,000 or less. Except, we've also made those unaffordable by > Biden has quadrupled tariffs on electric vehicles from China — from 25% to an eye-wateri…

If they actually cared about climate, they would let you take that $7k EV rebate they were dangling and apply it towards ebikes, all $7k of it. Of course this would be seen as rocking the boat too much, I am sure.

Re: America Has an Answer to the Biggest Problem with EVs

#23

Post by asdff »

pedalpete wrote: post #8

https://archive.is/96yi1 I feel what this article fails to mention is how the depreciation of EVs compares to depreciation of gas cars. Apparently, based on google searches, cars depreciate 15% when driven off the lot, and then a further 15% per year after that. So it looks like EVs are depreciating quicker. This would definitely be a good deal, as they also have lower operating costs.

I'm really curious to see how the used market shakes out when it becomes time to play hot potato with the inevitable battery array replacement. Gas cars need work to but that work is less costly and they can take a whole lot of neglect.

Re: America Has an Answer to the Biggest Problem with EVs

#24

Post by kelseyfrog »

warkdarrior wrote: post #17
8jef wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good grief, you're my hero! But seriously, that kind of talk could get you elected.

Elected maybe in California, but not most of the US and definitely not in Texas, Florida, etc.

In Texas and Florida big trucks are gender-affirming vehicles for cis-people. That's the nature of reality, big toys for big boys.

Re: America Has an Answer to the Biggest Problem with EVs

#25

Post by Dalewyn »

thechao wrote: post #9
romwell wrote: post #5

TL;DR: used EVs are "cheap" these days. As in, they're finally getting into a sub-$30K range. Meanwhile, I'm going to drive my 2010 Honda Fit (that I bought for $5K in 2017) practically forever. I'm making 6 figures as a software engineer, as does my wife. We have no kids. I have no idea who are these people buying new cars, or who are all these people for whom $30K is "cheap". I can pay that out of pocket, but unles…

> Oh, they won't fare well in a collision with F-150? Then maybe we can remove those from the streets outside specific delivery and maintenance hours, and impose a lower speed limit for heavier cars. A few things: 1. We should tax vehicles according to their road damage, i.e., O((weight/axles)^4*axles); 2. Vehicles with bumpers/hoods higher than Xcm should never be allowed in the left lane; 3. Vehicles with gas milea…

>1. We should tax vehicles according to their road damage, i.e., O((weight/axles)^4*axles);

Fair, though keep in mind that EVs and specifically their batteries are damn heavy putting them as sedans right up there with the bigger pickups and SUVs.

Taxes on EVs will also have to compensate for fuel taxes that would not apply to them.

>2. Vehicles with bumpers/hoods higher than Xcm should never be allowed in the left lane;

Here in America we deal in freedom units, not metric.

Also, Americans love their RVs and big muscle trucks (both pickups and 18 wheelers).

>3. Vehicles with gas mileage worse than 3g/100miles shouldn't be allowed to go over 45mph.

Hope you'll like your groceries and all other shopping becoming quite a bit more expensive to make up for slower transport. 18 wheelers are the life blood of the American economy.

>slap their business sticker on their 100k$+ 250s & 350s and then take the whole cost as a "write off" for "tax purposes".

What they are doing is buying the vehicle using company funds as company equipment and then writing it down as a loss on their Income/Loss sheet. There's nothing wrong with it and you should do so for any company purchases.

You might complain that the line between personal and commercial is being blurred and you would be right, but in the small business world that line is blurry for both practical and "less than justifiable but tolerated" reasons.

Obligatory disclaimer: I'm not a CPA, none of this should be understood as financial advice. Consult a proper CPA or financial advisor for financial advice.

Re: America Has an Answer to the Biggest Problem with EVs

#26

Post by Clubber »

asdff wrote: post #23
pedalpete wrote: post #8

https://archive.is/96yi1 I feel what this article fails to mention is how the depreciation of EVs compares to depreciation of gas cars. Apparently, based on google searches, cars depreciate 15% when driven off the lot, and then a further 15% per year after that. So it looks like EVs are depreciating quicker. This would definitely be a good deal, as they also have lower operating costs.

I'm really curious to see how the used market shakes out when it becomes time to play hot potato with the inevitable battery array replacement. Gas cars need work to but that work is less costly and they can take a whole lot of neglect.

The battery is the achilles' heel of EV's. An ICE engine can last 20+ years if you take care of it. An EV needs a battery replacement at the tune of $10K+ after 10 years at best. I think once they make longer lasting and/or cheaper batteries, this difference will level out.

FWIW I drive a Toyota ICE and fully expect it to last to 200K+ miles and 20 years. If I decide to trade it, it would keep a heck of a lot of its value vs a Tesla. Those things depreciate like produce.

Re: America Has an Answer to the Biggest Problem with EVs

#27

Post by asdff »

bloomingeek wrote: post #12
romwell wrote: post #5

TL;DR: used EVs are "cheap" these days. As in, they're finally getting into a sub-$30K range. Meanwhile, I'm going to drive my 2010 Honda Fit (that I bought for $5K in 2017) practically forever. I'm making 6 figures as a software engineer, as does my wife. We have no kids. I have no idea who are these people buying new cars, or who are all these people for whom $30K is "cheap". I can pay that out of pocket, but unles…

When I purchased the base model Ram Classic pick-up in 2021, it cost $27K. It has the same engine and drive train as the $50K model, just not as pretty. A buddy of mine wanted to know why I did this and I told him both trucks do the same thing, but I have all that extra money in the bank. He just blinked at me and walked away, because he's an idiot. I also needed the truck, he didn't need his, he just wanted to have…

Out west where cars don't rust out from road salt, you see people still driving these 1970s trucks into job sites. A truck is a truck. Might as well get one from that era thats no taller than a sedan these days but still has a full bed and a big block thats probably going to keep on ticking another 50 years easy.

Re: America Has an Answer to the Biggest Problem with EVs

#28

Post by asdff »

ars wrote: post #16
romwell wrote: post #5

TL;DR: used EVs are "cheap" these days. As in, they're finally getting into a sub-$30K range. Meanwhile, I'm going to drive my 2010 Honda Fit (that I bought for $5K in 2017) practically forever. I'm making 6 figures as a software engineer, as does my wife. We have no kids. I have no idea who are these people buying new cars, or who are all these people for whom $30K is "cheap". I can pay that out of pocket, but unles…

> We could make $5K glorified golf carts street-legal They did that: https://www.cato.org/blog/im-government-im-here-give-you-gol... (the article is kind of snarky but 100% accurate). And I know people who bought those free golf carts (that's how I heard about the program in the first place - if I had a place to park the thing I would have done it myself), drove them around a little and then they broke and that was t…

I'm surprised people didn't like them. they are super popular in places that tolerate them e.g. more vacation/resort style towns as the designated grocery getter once you've parked the main car for the weekend. I'd love to have one. I've seen like two of them in the grocery store lot before here in socal.

Re: America Has an Answer to the Biggest Problem with EVs

#29

Post by tmoertel »

thechao wrote: post #9
romwell wrote: post #5

TL;DR: used EVs are "cheap" these days. As in, they're finally getting into a sub-$30K range. Meanwhile, I'm going to drive my 2010 Honda Fit (that I bought for $5K in 2017) practically forever. I'm making 6 figures as a software engineer, as does my wife. We have no kids. I have no idea who are these people buying new cars, or who are all these people for whom $30K is "cheap". I can pay that out of pocket, but unles…

> Oh, they won't fare well in a collision with F-150? Then maybe we can remove those from the streets outside specific delivery and maintenance hours, and impose a lower speed limit for heavier cars. A few things: 1. We should tax vehicles according to their road damage, i.e., O((weight/axles)^4*axles); 2. Vehicles with bumpers/hoods higher than Xcm should never be allowed in the left lane; 3. Vehicles with gas milea…

> 2. Vehicles with bumpers/hoods higher than Xcm should never be allowed in the left lane;

How does this edict apply to roads on which each direction has only one lane (accounting for about half of US traffic volume)?

Re: America Has an Answer to the Biggest Problem with EVs

#30

Post by asdff »

Clubber wrote: post #26
asdff wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really curious to see how the used market shakes out when it becomes time to play hot potato with the inevitable battery array replacement. Gas cars need work to but that work is less costly and they can take a whole lot of neglect.

The battery is the achilles' heel of EV's. An ICE engine can last 20+ years if you take care of it. An EV needs a battery replacement at the tune of $10K+ after 10 years at best. I think once they make longer lasting and/or cheaper batteries, this difference will level out. FWIW I drive a Toyota ICE and fully expect it to last to 200K+ miles and 20 years. If I decide to trade it, it would keep a heck of a lot of its…

If theres no road salting a car can last literally forever. Especially older cars that were built on solid platforms. So many old big block trucks or diesel mercs in socal still working fine after 40-50 years. I see even older cars too, some of them beat to absolute crap with hardly any paint left on the metal but still in service.
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