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I was at AMD in the mid-late 2000s helping design CPU/APU/GPUs

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Re: I was at AMD in the mid-late 2000s helping design CPU/APU/GPUs

#21

Post by DEADMINCE »

basilgohar wrote: post #7

I love this insider view into this interesting point in computing history, especially about AMD. However, I was a little put off by the glorification of nVidia's shady practices and lock-in policies as key to their current leading position. While technically true, I dislike "ends justify the means"-style thinking. All this as the OP glorifies AMD's engineering and grit-based culture to drive through all though tough…

> However, I was a little put off by the glorification of nVidia's shady practices and lock-in policies as key to their current leading position. While technically true, I dislike "ends justify the means"-style thinking.

Personally, I have no issue with "ends justify the means"-style thinking as a blanket rule, often it's perfectly appropriate.

I would argue it is, in this case, where Nvidia was playing a game by the rules. If there is an issue with how they played, then government should change the rules.

The people in power in the US don't want that though.

Re: I was at AMD in the mid-late 2000s helping design CPU/APU/GPUs

#22

Post by jjoonathan »

basilgohar wrote: post #7

I love this insider view into this interesting point in computing history, especially about AMD. However, I was a little put off by the glorification of nVidia's shady practices and lock-in policies as key to their current leading position. While technically true, I dislike "ends justify the means"-style thinking. All this as the OP glorifies AMD's engineering and grit-based culture to drive through all though tough…

She turned the company around and got it on the right path, but in interviews I get the feeling that she might also be responsible for the "Hardware 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th.... eh, maybe software can be 5th" culture and AMD's deep denial that it has a problem.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40790924

That was OK for the CPU turnaround, but on the GPU front it completely shut them out of the first rounds of the AI party and maybe a trillion in market cap.

Re: I was at AMD in the mid-late 2000s helping design CPU/APU/GPUs

#24

Post by redleader55 »

nickpeterson wrote: post #10

People keep yelling about nvidia stock but that feels like a huge bubble. AI disillusionment will hit and the stock will implode. Nvidia hasn’t made any inroads on producing actual systems, just gpus. Once Apple or Microsoft have a fast enough chip (TOPs wise), nobody will care about nvidia lead except in the datacenter. Seems like a failing position to me.

Nvidia doesn't only produce GPUs. They have their hands in all sorts of interesting technologies from high speed, performance NICs to switches. The GPUs in the data centers don't just function as an individual unit, but they are able to use the "backend" NICs of the server, in conjunction with their proprietary NCCL library to send data with as close as possible to "zero-copy" from GPU to GPU with very good horizontal scalability. As you can imagine the network fabric behind this is quite important, and Nvidia having one the best Infiniband switches helps keep this monoploy.

There are many companies working on alternatives at the moment, but it will be a while until Nvidia can be replaced.

Re: I was at AMD in the mid-late 2000s helping design CPU/APU/GPUs

#25

Post by lotsofpulp »

elzbardico wrote: post #20
carlsborg wrote: post #16

Back in 2015, AMD was trading at $2.40 and Nvidia at about 50 cents (accounting for stock splits). 1000 USD invested then would be ~$70,000 and ~$256,000 respectively today.

Let's be frank. Nobody invests on the market nowadays, the correct verb is BET.

I have been reading this comment since early 2000s. If I was old enough, I probably would have heard this comment being made in the late 1990s. As well as the 1980s. And probably before that too.

Re: I was at AMD in the mid-late 2000s helping design CPU/APU/GPUs

#27

Post by tambourine_man »

I never worked at a large company and he was right there, but there are so many outstanding things in this thread, it’s hard not be surprised.

Not understanding the importance of GPUs in 2006, or of being first-to-market, while confusing OpenGL with OpenCL (twice), survival bias (BELIEVE IN YOUR VISION)…

Re: I was at AMD in the mid-late 2000s helping design CPU/APU/GPUs

#28

Post by [deleted] »

eitally wrote: post #13
nickpeterson wrote: post #10

People keep yelling about nvidia stock but that feels like a huge bubble. AI disillusionment will hit and the stock will implode. Nvidia hasn’t made any inroads on producing actual systems, just gpus. Once Apple or Microsoft have a fast enough chip (TOPs wise), nobody will care about nvidia lead except in the datacenter. Seems like a failing position to me.

I think I'm not adequately understanding your comment. Nvidia has huge software teams building accelerators that optimize application of their GPUs for all kinds of applications. They also now offer their own "cloud" and have partnered with the hyperscalers for integration as well as GTM. Those same hyperscalers are also almost unilaterally driving Nvidia's growth the past few years. The cloud market is still growing…

[deleted]

Re: I was at AMD in the mid-late 2000s helping design CPU/APU/GPUs

#29

Post by bob1029 »

eitally wrote: post #13
nickpeterson wrote: post #10

People keep yelling about nvidia stock but that feels like a huge bubble. AI disillusionment will hit and the stock will implode. Nvidia hasn’t made any inroads on producing actual systems, just gpus. Once Apple or Microsoft have a fast enough chip (TOPs wise), nobody will care about nvidia lead except in the datacenter. Seems like a failing position to me.

I think I'm not adequately understanding your comment. Nvidia has huge software teams building accelerators that optimize application of their GPUs for all kinds of applications. They also now offer their own "cloud" and have partnered with the hyperscalers for integration as well as GTM. Those same hyperscalers are also almost unilaterally driving Nvidia's growth the past few years. The cloud market is still growing…

I think much of this boils down to perspectives some of us have regarding the value of in-house manufacturing capabilities relative to design time & software capabilities.

I get arguments that maybe one fab is better than the other, but what about all of them combined? All of our modern chipmaking capability all at once.

Nvidia has no factories. You can ship their output on a USB flash drive. Valuation: ~3.1T.

Intel, TSMC and Samsung have all the factories. Every modern chip made on earth in this circle. Combined valuation: ~1.1T

This is simple napkin math for this arbitrary retail investor. I don't know when the music will stop but it absolutely will.

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