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Volkswagen invests up to $5B in Rivian

bloomberg.com

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Re: Volkswagen invests up to $5B in Rivian

#21

Post by constantcrying »

MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #20
constantcrying wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They've thrown money at the problem for years (instead of changing company culture, which needs to happen first) I don't think that is true at all. They even tried to create a separate company, just to focus on software, so that culture there could develop differently. It just didn't work out.

> They even tried to create a separate company This is an attempt to sidestep the politically hairy problem of changing a company’s culture. This never works because the daughter company either gets eaten by the more powerful parent company‘s culture, or their output is ignored and never integrated back into the parent.

What do you do instead? The VW processes for mechanical, manufacturing and mechatronics engineering seem to work reasonably well. How do you change the culture of such a large company, without breaking what works?

Re: Volkswagen invests up to $5B in Rivian

#22

Post by Moldoteck »

constantcrying wrote: post #11
neals wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VW has had large problems getting their software processes straight. They've thrown money at the problem for years (instead of changing company culture, which needs to happen first) so I'm not surprised they'd buy a whole car company just for the software.

>They've thrown money at the problem for years (instead of changing company culture, which needs to happen first) I don't think that is true at all. They even tried to create a separate company, just to focus on software, so that culture there could develop differently. It just didn't work out.

they tried to create a separate company, but culture was imported. It's called vw group for a reason. They have lot's of 'bureaucracy' and this is not specific just for vw. That's why things do happen so slow - changing the processes that do already work (poorly but work) is super hard when there are lot's of ppl that do praise these procedures

Re: Volkswagen invests up to $5B in Rivian

#23

Post by null_investor »

constantcrying wrote: post #13
TheDudeMan wrote: post #6

I also invested up to $5B.

The correct information is that VW did invest $1B and will invest $4B if certain conditions are met in the future.

The article begins with VW investing $5B on them. Gotta love crappy Bloomberg journalism.

Re: Volkswagen invests up to $5B in Rivian

#24

Post by tempestn »

sgt wrote: post #7
echelon wrote: post #3

Rivians are wildly popular here in Georgia. I'm not sure if that's because we have a Rivian plant, because our local demographic likes pickup trucks, or both. Their headlights are distinctive, making them almost impossible to miss.

I remember in the beginning they were heavily criticized for the looks. They stuck to it, and now it's a recognizable (and trusted - more or less) brand.

I didn't hear much criticism. Have always thought they did well with the styling. And yeah, I might even say they have the best brand image of any electric car company at this point - which could be a big part of why VW wants this relationship.

Re: Volkswagen invests up to $5B in Rivian

#25

Post by lostlogin »

neals wrote: post #9
constantcrying wrote: post #5

I also pointed this out in the other thread, but VW is currently building up a direct competitor to Rivian. VW themselves says they want the investment for the Software of Rivian, which also is somewhat curious.

VW has had large problems getting their software processes straight. They've thrown money at the problem for years (instead of changing company culture, which needs to happen first) so I'm not surprised they'd buy a whole car company just for the software.

So there is Apple, a massive company that makes software and has struggled with its car project, and VW, a massive company that makes cars and has struggle with software.

In another universe, I wonder if this could have been a partnership?

Re: Volkswagen invests up to $5B in Rivian

#26

Post by dtech »

lostlogin wrote: post #25
neals wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VW has had large problems getting their software processes straight. They've thrown money at the problem for years (instead of changing company culture, which needs to happen first) so I'm not surprised they'd buy a whole car company just for the software.

So there is Apple, a massive company that makes software and has struggled with its car project, and VW, a massive company that makes cars and has struggle with software. In another universe, I wonder if this could have been a partnership?

Apparently working together with Apple is extremely difficult because they are so controlling and demanding, and that is even without the cultural and timezone difference, so I doubt it's viable.

Re: Volkswagen invests up to $5B in Rivian

#27

Post by MrBuddyCasino »

constantcrying wrote: post #21
MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They even tried to create a separate company This is an attempt to sidestep the politically hairy problem of changing a company’s culture. This never works because the daughter company either gets eaten by the more powerful parent company‘s culture, or their output is ignored and never integrated back into the parent.

What do you do instead? The VW processes for mechanical, manufacturing and mechatronics engineering seem to work reasonably well. How do you change the culture of such a large company, without breaking what works?

You recognize that software engineering is different from mechanical/electrical engineering and stop shooting yourself in the foot. This will only happen when a competent software guy is part of the top executive suite and has sufficient freedom to do what is necessary.

I think the chances are slim, considering the general ineptitude regarding software development in German companies. They will get better until finally arriving at mediocre, but they will never be as great as American companies.

I hope one day they manage to implement a functioning CarPlay in their VW Polos, it has been broken since years.

Re: Volkswagen invests up to $5B in Rivian

#28

Post by lucianbr »

constantcrying wrote: post #21
MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They even tried to create a separate company This is an attempt to sidestep the politically hairy problem of changing a company’s culture. This never works because the daughter company either gets eaten by the more powerful parent company‘s culture, or their output is ignored and never integrated back into the parent.

What do you do instead? The VW processes for mechanical, manufacturing and mechatronics engineering seem to work reasonably well. How do you change the culture of such a large company, without breaking what works?

I expect people making tens of millions per year to figure it out.

Are there no auto manufacturers with ok software? Presumably it's not impossible.

Re: Volkswagen invests up to $5B in Rivian

#29

Post by Tomte »

constantcrying wrote: post #12
peutetre wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe eventually they'll make Rivian a Volkswagen brand. They own many auto brands. As part of the joint venture with Rimac they gave Rimac the Bugatti brand: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bugatti_Rimac

>Maybe eventually they'll make Rivian a Volkswagen brand. That seems counter productive though, they seem to want Rivian tech. Usually their brands are managed centrally, so VW is developing platforms and architectures, which are then used by Skoda, Seat and Audio to make their models.

I'm not certain, but I think it isn't like VW developing platforms and everyone using it. It's more every company in the conglomerate taking turns or having specializations and everyone else using that.

So that a Golf platform is first developed by VW and then productized by VM and Skoda, but Skoda is already developing next year's platform which VW will use.

Re: Volkswagen invests up to $5B in Rivian

#30

Post by constantcrying »

Tomte wrote: post #29
constantcrying wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Maybe eventually they'll make Rivian a Volkswagen brand. That seems counter productive though, they seem to want Rivian tech. Usually their brands are managed centrally, so VW is developing platforms and architectures, which are then used by Skoda, Seat and Audio to make their models.

I'm not certain, but I think it isn't like VW developing platforms and everyone using it. It's more every company in the conglomerate taking turns or having specializations and everyone else using that. So that a Golf platform is first developed by VW and then productized by VM and Skoda, but Skoda is already developing next year's platform which VW will use.

>but Skoda is already developing next year's platform which VW will use.

Do you have any evidence for Skoda developing a platform on their own?

Audi and Porsche did do their own platform development, but that was never used by VW or Seat or Skoda and was for a completely different market segment.

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