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Internet Archive forced to remove 500k books after publishers' court win

arstechnica.com

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Re: Internet Archive forced to remove 500k books after publishers' court win

#21

Post by riffic »

TylerE wrote: post #2

They should fire what even nitwit thought this obviously illegal plan was a good idea in the first place. The fallout will likely tank the entire archive in the long term.

I love how the Hacker ethos has shifted from information wants to be free[0] to this sort of predictable HN (the H stands for Hacker doesn't it) reply.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_wants_to_be_free

EDIT: looks like the "this is the law" crowd is out in full force on this summer Friday night. All the cool people are doing something else, elsewhere obviously.

Re: Internet Archive forced to remove 500k books after publishers' court win

#22

Post by mike_d »

TylerE wrote: post #7
a1o wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was through lending, this was due to a change of policy of lending during COVID-19 to ease access

It lending done flagrantly in violation of the licensing. They were taking a copy licensed to be lent ONCE and giving it to thousands of people at once.

> taking a copy licensed

I'm curious what license applies when I buy a physical book, as a library does? Do you have a resource where I could learn more?

Re: Internet Archive forced to remove 500k books after publishers' court win

#23

Post by pessimizer »

With this judgement, does this force them to write a tool that determines whether a book is in print or not? Are there any good webservices, or will they just have to scrape Amazon, etc.? I've noticed a lot of their lending library is definitely out of print; is "out-of-print and public domain" just the ars writer's interpretation of the judgement?

If it isn't, a tighter awareness of what is in print and out of print might be able to cut into those 500K, if at all possible. If lending is out, best to be aggressive with what's left.

Re: Internet Archive forced to remove 500k books after publishers' court win

#24

Post by cft »

ranger_danger wrote: post #5
TylerE wrote: post #2

They should fire what even nitwit thought this obviously illegal plan was a good idea in the first place. The fallout will likely tank the entire archive in the long term.

90% of the "archive" is just mass piracy anyway

Piracy means that something was taken by force from someone. What was it that was taken that's no longer there?

Re: Internet Archive forced to remove 500k books after publishers' court win

#25

Post by TaylorAlexander »

There is no greater folly of contemporary human society than the purposeful restriction of such vast and easily shareable repositories of knowledge. Perhaps these schemes made sense in the past but with the advent of the internet and independent groups willing to fund all hosting fees, we should move to models of publishing that do not require this restriction of information. Library genesis exists but necessarily must hide and create some friction in the discovery process. A legally unencumbered free library of all books for all people would be the greatest achievement in all of human history. We prevent this achievement due to our attachment to a specific economic system that serves as the current means of financially supporting authors. We must build alternatives to for-profit publishing, and the only resilient and widely acceptable system I can imagine is one where every community owns and controls the means of production upon which they depend for their survival. In such an economic system, the need for automation would be obvious and once implemented, all people would receive the benefits of automation. This would include such a wide allowance for leisure and free time that authors would no longer need to restrict access to their books to extract profits from their value their shared knowledge creates. All people would be free to do what they will.

It would take great effort to build such a system, but open source and digital repositories of machine designs would ensure that efforts are not duplicated. The effort would still be substantial, but what hangs in the balance is the opportunity to assure the freedom of all people and the creation of the most significant repository of knowledge humanity has ever conceived of. If we succeed it will be our greatest achievement as a species.

Re: Internet Archive forced to remove 500k books after publishers' court win

#26

Post by MattGaiser »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #25

There is no greater folly of contemporary human society than the purposeful restriction of such vast and easily shareable repositories of knowledge. Perhaps these schemes made sense in the past but with the advent of the internet and independent groups willing to fund all hosting fees, we should move to models of publishing that do not require this restriction of information. Library genesis exists but necessarily mu…

[flagged]

Re: Internet Archive forced to remove 500k books after publishers' court win

#27

Post by chx »

Oh this appeal to the public, pithy empty words about openness and shit.

Here's the plain truth: IA ran a gigantic book piracy site during covid. They should've known they won't get away with it. I remember several authors begging them not to do this because it affected their income. I personally thought it monumentally stupid to put the Wayback Machine at risk.

They said, there are enough physical books in closed libraries to cover their lending. That's not how this works. They should've asked the publishers for permission first if necessary putting pressure on them via public. This is not a case of it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission because they must have known they won't be forgiven for this. I can't even.

I am not saying this is by any means moral or right. I am saying: this is the law. They actually got relatively lucky for not being fined to oblivion for this.

Re: Internet Archive forced to remove 500k books after publishers' court win

#28

Post by greyface- »

jachee wrote: post #18
TylerE wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then why did they just get their ass royally handed to them in court?

Because billion-dollar capitalist rent-seeking bullies got their panties in a wad and threatened to bankrupt them with legal fees that the bullies wouldn’t even feel if they lost. And the archive is just a non-profit that were offering a not-for-profit service for the betterment of society, with literally zero actual negative consequences.

Trying to normalize a DRM system is not advancing the betterment of society. If IA wanted to be pro-social scofflaws, they should have published DRM-free epubs/PDFs/etc for download, copyright law be damned. If they wanted to be law-abiding, they should have declined to offer this service, and informed users of the existence of shadow libraries.

Re: Internet Archive forced to remove 500k books after publishers' court win

#29

Post by gerdesj »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #25

There is no greater folly of contemporary human society than the purposeful restriction of such vast and easily shareable repositories of knowledge. Perhaps these schemes made sense in the past but with the advent of the internet and independent groups willing to fund all hosting fees, we should move to models of publishing that do not require this restriction of information. Library genesis exists but necessarily mu…

Who wrote that (sorry - EDIT) errr am I holding it upright .... bollocks? 8)

"Library genesis exists but necessarily must hide and create some friction in the discovery process."

Really!

Personally speaking, I'm fucking incensed that ...

Re: Internet Archive forced to remove 500k books after publishers' court win

#30

Post by riffic »

mike_d wrote: post #22
TylerE wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It lending done flagrantly in violation of the licensing. They were taking a copy licensed to be lent ONCE and giving it to thousands of people at once.

> taking a copy licensed I'm curious what license applies when I buy a physical book, as a library does? Do you have a resource where I could learn more?

doctrine of first sale, it's a really interesting concept in the United States at least.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine

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