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There's more to mathematics than rigour and proofs (2007)

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Re: There's more to mathematics than rigour and proofs (2007)

#22
“Before I learned the art, a punch was just a punch, and a kick, just a kick. After I learned the art, a punch was no longer a punch, a kick, no longer a kick. Now that I understand the art, a punch is just a punch and a kick is just a kick.” - Bruce Lee

Re: There's more to mathematics than rigour and proofs (2007)

#23

The first time I really felt I understood math in depth was my uni linear algebra course. Distance and orthogonality were replaced with a more abstract but better inner product. It behaved like an IT interface: As long as some basic properties were fulfilled, aal of linear algebra came along. Half o the examples were the usual numeric vectors and matrices, the others were integrals, etc...

I didn’t get much out of linear algebra. It felt too computational. I only really got it once I “relearned” it as part of abstract algebra

There is a big range of approaches out there for teaching linear algebra. I really enjoyed my quite abstract linear algebra course, but there were a lot of other kids in it that really struggled and did not get much out of it. Takes all kinds.

Re: There's more to mathematics than rigour and proofs (2007)

#24

> One can roughly divide mathematical education into three stages: Similarly with programming. 1. Write programs that you think are cool 2. Learn about data structures and algorithms and complexity and software organization. 3. Write programs that you think are cool. But since you know more, you can write more cool programs. If things are working as they should, the end stage of mathematics and programming should be…

Or alternatively:

1. Programming in very concrete/practical terms because you do not know how to think in precise and abstract terms (do not know math)

2. Thinking more precisely and abstractly (more mathematical way)

3. Only do some key important abstractions, and being a bit hand-wawy again in terms of precision. The reason: important real-world problems are usually very complex, and complex problems resist most abstractions, and also being totally precise in all cases is impossible due to the complexity.

All-in-all it is due to increased complexity in my opinion.

Example: 1. Writing some fun geometry related programs 2. learn about geometry more seriously 3. write software based on a multiple hundred thousand line CAD kernel.

Other example: 1. Write fun games on C64 2. Learn about computer graphics in University 3. Contribute to the source code of Unreal Engine with multiple million lines of code with multiple thousand line class declaration header files.

Re: There's more to mathematics than rigour and proofs (2007)

#25
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. We have machines that can crank out true theorems, rigorously proven, all day. It takes a mathematician to know what is worth working on. And that is fundamentally an intuitive decision. Computers don't care whether a proof is interesting or not.

It’s a bit tautological since we are defining interesting as what human mathematicians work on. Perhaps if computers ran the show they wouldn’t agree with our definition.

Regardless of what computers find interesting, humans want to progress math in stuff humans find interesting. We can't fully rely on computers to do that yet since they can't seem to judge that very well rn as good as human mathematicians.

Don't necessarily see a tautology here.

Re: There's more to mathematics than rigour and proofs (2007)

#26
The idea of the 3 levels really resonated with the ideas in "Bernoulli's Fallacy" as well. Right now we are seeing a resurgence of Bayesian reasoning across all fields that deal with data and statistical reasoning. I think many errors of modern civilization were caused by people at a level 2 understanding attempting to operationalize their knowledge for others at level 1.

We need it to become much more common to operate at level 3, especially in fields like enterprise software development.

Re: There's more to mathematics than rigour and proofs (2007)

#27
The worst thing is when someone who thinks that "math is 100% infallible and all about rigor, you gotta show your work and include all the steps" yet they think that set theory is good enough and it doesnt have problems

they say things like "Everything in math is a set," but then you ask them "OK, what's a theorem and what's a proof?" they'll either be confused by this question or say something like "It's a different object that exists in some unexplainable sidecar of set theory"

They don't know anything about type theory, implications of the law of excluded middle, univalent foundations, any of that stuff

Re: There's more to mathematics than rigour and proofs (2007)

#28

“Before I learned the art, a punch was just a punch, and a kick, just a kick. After I learned the art, a punch was no longer a punch, a kick, no longer a kick. Now that I understand the art, a punch is just a punch and a kick is just a kick.” - Bruce Lee

People have pointed out similarities to a few things in this thread now. It's pretty much the bell curve meme: https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/iq-bell-curve-midwit

Re: There's more to mathematics than rigour and proofs (2007)

#30

The worst thing is when someone who thinks that "math is 100% infallible and all about rigor, you gotta show your work and include all the steps" yet they think that set theory is good enough and it doesnt have problems they say things like "Everything in math is a set," but then you ask them "OK, what's a theorem and what's a proof?" they'll either be confused by this question or say something like "It's a different…

My favorite was when a manager tried to get me to agree with the statement that "math was just for the numbers right?". Meaning not character strings nor dates. I was dumbstruck by the question.
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