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Boeing Starliner Stuck on Space Station as More Leaks Discovered

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Re: Boeing Starliner Stuck on Space Station as More Leaks Discovered

#21

Post by burnished »

minetest2048 wrote: post #7

As much as I think Boeing screwed up, the title is a clickbait: > NASA is giving Boeing another four days, extending Wilmore and Williams' mission onboard the ISS from June 14 to no earlier than June 18, though it's unclear whether the leaks are to blame for the delay. No, no one have conclusively say that Starliner is stuck on ISS because of helium leak

Could that be due to saving face? I poked around for more information and the best I could find was that they're going to be using at least some of the extended time to evaluate it for safety, though it was cleared for emergency evacuation (though I'm not sure what that means in space).

I dunno. I do agree this is entirely clickbait. The author makes a couple implications but fails to make an argument or even really connect their observations and conclusions.

Re: Boeing Starliner Stuck on Space Station as More Leaks Discovered

#22

Post by paranoidrobot »

pedalpete wrote: post #4

What's the strategy for getting the astronauts back? Do they jettison the Starliner and dock a different recovery vehicle? Are those on stand-by ready to go?

> Are those on stand-by ready to go?

Good News: There's no real risk to them remaining on ISS at this point, short of some major incident on the ISS itself which required immediate evacuation.

Less good:

Even if Boeing had a spare Starliner (they don't), they don't have a spare rocket to put it on.

Even if Boeing had a spare fully stacked Starliner + Rocket, I'm not sure anyone (even Boeing) would trust their process to be agile enough to launch a recovery mission any time soon.

So that leaves Russia's Soyuz and SpaceX's Crew Dragon.

Using Soyuz would be a major political headache, aside from anything else. It'd require scrapping the next planned Soyuz mission - it may take several months to get that ready. I believe they have to (and would) have to send it up manned.

Using Crew Dragon may be possible, No idea on where SpaceX is as with having refurbished/ready to go capsules on hand, but they have enough launch cadence that it may be possible.

Space Suits then become a problem - they're specific to each launch vehicle, and customised for each wearer. So lead times there become an issue.

Re: Boeing Starliner Stuck on Space Station as More Leaks Discovered

#23

Post by burnished »

throwAGIway wrote: post #16
akira2501 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should never have faith in a company. You should have faith in the regulatory process that constrains that company. If you see a spoiled child being a brat, do you blame the child?

The same regulatory process that allowed the Boeing Max and other catastrophic issues?

That seems clear? Are you perhaps reading that as a literal command 'have faith in this process'? I believe their point is that you should have (or lose) faith in regulations as the constraint on industry, as opposed to companies which are viewed as having no restraint.

I don't entirely agree with that viewpoint, but they aren't saying anything inherently contradictory

Re: Boeing Starliner Stuck on Space Station as More Leaks Discovered

#24

Post by paranoidrobot »

tjohns wrote: post #17
pedalpete wrote: post #4

What's the strategy for getting the astronauts back? Do they jettison the Starliner and dock a different recovery vehicle? Are those on stand-by ready to go?

Worst case, they could always use the other capsule that's docked to the ISS right now to get back. Though that would leave the current crew stranded up there until a replacement spacecraft can be sent. That takes several months. This has happened before. The Soyuz docked to the ISS in Dec 2022 was damaged by a micrometeorite strike and was deemed unsafe, leaving that crew essentially stuck up there until a new Soyuz…

> they could always use the other capsule

This only works when you're talking about switching between the same system.

Astronauts who flew up on Starliner can't just get into a Soyuz and fly home.

Their space suits won't work, and they can't just borrow the other guy's - they're custom fit.

Re: Boeing Starliner Stuck on Space Station as More Leaks Discovered

#25

Post by johnea »

> Boeing has been through hell and back ?

Unfortunately, several hundred boeing product users didn't get the opportunity to come back.

After the numerous launch scrubs, this one way ticket to the ISS was already a distinct possiblity. Maybe boeing won't be able to bring these astronauts back either.

From a wider persoective, this really highlights why human space travel should be minimized. Outside of teenage boy spaceman fantasy and various government's desire to start shooting people in space, there is very little reason.

Re: Boeing Starliner Stuck on Space Station as More Leaks Discovered

#26

Post by HeatrayEnjoyer »

redeeman wrote: post #11
akira2501 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should never have faith in a company. You should have faith in the regulatory process that constrains that company. If you see a spoiled child being a brat, do you blame the child?

> You should have faith in the regulatory process that constrains that company. "Hello, im from the government and im here to help"

We need more government regulation of giant corps.

Re: Boeing Starliner Stuck on Space Station as More Leaks Discovered

#27

Post by readthenotes1 »

kelnos wrote: post #19
akira2501 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should never have faith in a company. You should have faith in the regulatory process that constrains that company. If you see a spoiled child being a brat, do you blame the child?

> You should never have faith in a company. You should have faith in the regulatory process that constrains that company. I agree, but I think the need for this points to a pretty glaring level of brokenness in capitalism. (I'm also assuming by your second "should" that there's an implicit "in an ideal world" prefix, since I really do not have much faith in the regulatory process that constrains Boeing.)

Greed will affect any *ism you choose and has to be controlled somehow.

(Also to worry about: pride, lust, envy, gluttony and sloth. Or if you prefer: acquisitiveness, rivalry, vanity, and lust for power)

Re: Boeing Starliner Stuck on Space Station as More Leaks Discovered

#29

Post by plugger »

bogota wrote: post #6

At what point do we just completely lose faith in a company? First they screwed over the public and now our astronauts.

They can do right. The X-37B is still on orbit, and from an unclassified perspective it looks like a huge success.

Re: Boeing Starliner Stuck on Space Station as More Leaks Discovered

#30

Post by dingaling »

plugger wrote: post #29
bogota wrote: post #6

At what point do we just completely lose faith in a company? First they screwed over the public and now our astronauts.

They can do right. The X-37B is still on orbit, and from an unclassified perspective it looks like a huge success.

X-37 was developed by Boeing's Phantom Works, which is outside the normal commercial structure.
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